Need help building Sony Combo Device with 12/15/20 protocol

[mdavej]

I have a Sony KDS60A2000 TV and have found a couple of device files plus a couple of learned keys that give me all the functions I need. But to save memory and keymoves, I'd like to combine all into one device upgrade. I'd also like to do it using something like the Sony 12/15/20 protocol rather than the generic device combiner so it won't intefere with my other upgrades. My attempt to combine all 4 devices (1, 119, 151 and 164) doesn't work at all.

[johnsfine]

The codes you should be combining are

Sony12: 1
Sony15: 119
Sony15: 151
Sony15: 164

There aren't any Sony20 codes there.

The Sony Combo 12/15/20 selection in KM still might be the best way to do it (since there doesn't seem to be an equally configurable Sony 12/15 combo). But you used it wrong.

KM's protocol instructions tell you to put just the device number in the byte2 column of each line (to get a sony12 or Sony15 signal).

It gives you the alternative to put a 5 (for Sony12) or a 6 (for Sony15) followed by the device number. I see you were trying to do that. But you got confused by the similarity but difference between the instructions for Sony20 and the instructions for that harder way of doing Sony12/15.

The Subdevices on the setup sheet are only for Sony20. The Sony15 device must be explicit in the byte2 column, with or without a 6 before it. The device number itself, not an index back to a postion on the setup sheet.

[mdavej]

Yeah, that's what I tried first (device number only in byte2), but I couldn't get that to work either. So I'm still a little confused. Are my 4 devices 1-2-3-4 or 0-1-2-3 in the byte2 column?

[johnsfine]

Yeah, that's what I tried first (device number only in byte2), but I couldn't get that to work either.

So something else was wrong, but changing that made it worse.

So I'm still a little confused. Are my 4 devices 1-2-3-4 or 0-1-2-3?

Neither. Your four device are 1-119-151-164

Did you remember to install the protocol upgrade?

[mdavej]

Ok. So I need to use the acutal device number in byte2 and not an enumeration. Now I understand. I'll give it a try tonight. Thanks.

[gfb107]

KM's protocol instructions tell you to put just the device number in the byte2 column of each line (to get a sony12 or Sony15 signal).

The means the actual device number, not the index to the device number.

Combo protocols such as these are one situation where RM really shines when compared to KM (IMO). You don't have to keep track of indexes to device numbers or protocols. RM does that for you, you just pick from a drop-down list of choices.

Just compare KM"s protocol help for Sony 12/15/20:

This combo protocol allows you to combine as many Sony12 and
Sony15 codes as you like with up to 4 Sony20 codes. You enter the
codes for the functions in OBC format as usual. Then in the byte2
column you enter the Sony12 or Sony15 device code. For Sony20
functions, you need to enter the 8-bit subdevice code (0-255) in the
four device code cells in the Setup sheet. Then in the byte2 column
you need to enter a 1-digit number indicating which of those 4 sub-
devices you wish to use (1, 2, 3, or 4), followed by a space,
followed by the 5-bit main device code (0-31).

For Sony12/15 codes, the spreadsheet will treat device codes 0
thru 31 as Sony12, and codes 32 thru 255 as Sony15. However, if
you wish to explicitly specify which version you want, enter a "5"
for Sony12 and a "6" for Sony15, followed by a space, and then the
device code.

NOTE: The option to specify byte2 is not available when using
5-digit EFC-style button codes.

to RM's help for the same protocol:

This combo protocol allows you to combine as many Sony12 and Sony15 codes as you like with up to 4 Sony20 codes. You enter the 4 Sony20 sub-device numbers on the Setup panel.

On the Functions panel, you enter the codes for the functions in OBC format as usual. Then you select the desired protocol for the function. Next enter the desired device number. If you enter a device number greater than 31, the protocol will be changed to Sony15, as it is the only one that supports values greater than 31. For Sony12 and Sony15, the Sub-device column must have the value "none". For Sony20 functions, select the desired sub-device number.

[mdavej]

Works great. Thanks to all. Here's the final product:
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3835

[Rick Webb]

I went and rated your upgrade a 10. It works like a charm with my KDF46E2000. I was a little concerned at first since signals from the OEM Sony RM-YD010 that I learned on my URC9910 decoded in IR to many Protocol 20 OBC's. I think the protocol explanation is a little deceiving to say that only 4 protocol 20 functions can be used. Its really 4 subdevices which can have many OBC's for each subdevice ... At lest that was my take but I didn't end up having to make my own upgrade since your's worked fine. Thanks again.

Rick 8)

[The Robman]

I think the protocol explanation is a little deceiving to say that only 4 protocol 20 functions can be used. Its really 4 subdevices which can have many OBC's for each subdevice.

You are correct, the combo protocol lets you combine up to 4 different Sony20 sub-devices with as many Sony12 and Sony15 signals as you need.

If you found some documentation that gives the impression that you can only use 4 Sony20 functions, could you please point it out so I can correct it.

[Capn Trips]

I believe he's referring to the Protocol Help in KM quoted above. The highlighted words can be subject to misinterpretation.

Just compare KM"s protocol help for Sony 12/15/20:

This combo protocol allows you to combine as many Sony12 and
Sony15 codes as you like with up to 4 Sony20 codes. You enter the
codes for the functions in OBC format as usual. Then in the byte2
column you enter the Sony12 or Sony15 device code. For Sony20
functions, you need to enter the 8-bit subdevice code (0-255) in the
four device code cells in the Setup sheet. Then in the byte2 column
you need to enter a 1-digit number indicating which of those 4 sub-
devices you wish to use (1, 2, 3, or 4), followed by a space,
followed by the 5-bit main device code (0-31).

For Sony12/15 codes, the spreadsheet will treat device codes 0
thru 31 as Sony12, and codes 32 thru 255 as Sony15. However, if
you wish to explicitly specify which version you want, enter a "5"
for Sony12 and a "6" for Sony15, followed by a space, and then the
device code.

NOTE: The option to specify byte2 is not available when using
5-digit EFC-style button codes.

In the Help, the word "codes" refers actually to "Subdevice codes" but a beginner COULD interpret that as meaning "functions" if he does not glom on to the contextual clues.

In fact, looking more closely at this help, it appears that the limitation on Sony20 device/subdevice numbers is such that you can use ANY number of Device codes (entered on the Functions worksheet) but ONLY FOUR SUBdevice numbers (entered on the Setup worksheet).

[johnsfine]

We've also seen confusion between Sony20 subdevices and Sony12/15 devices. That shouldn't have been confusing, but maybe we need to explicitly clear that up as well in the protocol help.

You can combine up to four different Sony20 subdevice codes with any number of Sony20 device codes and you can also combine any number of Sony12 and Sony15 device codes. Sony12 and Sony15 do not use subdevice codes.

[The Robman]

In fact, looking more closely at this help, it appears that the limitation on Sony20 device/subdevice numbers is such that you can use ANY number of Device codes (entered on the Functions worksheet) but ONLY FOUR SUBdevice numbers (entered on the Setup worksheet).

That is correct, the executor code gets the Sony20 sub-device code from the fixed data and it gets the device code from the 2nd byte of variable data. This is because the sub-device code uses 8 bits whereas the device code uses just 5 bits.

[Rick Webb]

Thanks gentlemen for your fantastic forum and for your clarification of functions versus codes for this newbie. Here's a couple related questions.

Learned codes:
The 'Up' key of the OEM Sony RM-YD010 learned onto my URC9910 was decoded by IR as Sony20 Dev26 Subdev114. In the upgrade of this topic, SONY-KDS60A2000-2116.txt, the 'Up' key is listed on the 'Functions' sheet as OBC 116 dev 1. Do isn't device one relegated to Sony12? Why would KM see it as a Sony20 protocol?

Duplicate models:
Is my rating of this upgrade sufficient for others with a KDF46E2000 to find it? or is there a cross-reference list to let other's know the SONY-KDS60A2000-2116.txt works with other models?

Thanks again.


More perplexing to me is why a KDF46E2000

[Rick Webb]

Sorry guys,

Please ignore the P'erhaps more perplexing ...' at the bottom of the last post, I hit the Submit button before proofreading. Also it should be 'So isn't device 1 ...' instead of 'Do isn't device one ...' Next time I'll hit Preview before submit. Cheers.

Rick

[mdavej]

Rick,

I can confirm that my KDSA2000 uses the same RM-YD010 remote as your's. So I looked it up on sony's esupport website and got a model list which I've added to my file description (which is searchable).

I built this upgrade mostly by cobbling together other existing upgrade files and decoding just a couple of learned keys. The "Wide" key, for example did decode correctly as a device 164. I didn't try the "Up" key, so I don't know what's going on with the protocol mismatch.