Key Move in IR from an upgraded protocol

mvgossman · Post by **mvgossman** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:14 pm

I have an Audiovox TV KM Upgrade definition with Setup code 0003, and I am trying to do a keymove using IR (power and volume) to the AUD and VCR modes. Not working! Any ideas why and a solution?

By the way, why does the volume pass-thru work to everything but AUD and VCR?

gfb107 · Post by **gfb107** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:15 am

You didn't tell us what remote you are using.

Volume pass-thru breaks when you change the device type for a device key. For example, if you uses a CD setup code on the VCR key, volume pass-thru won't work for the VCR key.

It might help if you post a copy of your save IR file.

mvgossman · Post by **mvgossman** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:12 am

Thanks... I am programming a 6131, and the IR file is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files ... itchen.txt

The device type is TV for the TV upgrade file, yet the volume pass-through nor the IR-programmed keymove work from device 0003 volume or power to the AUD/VCR modes. Doing a manual "994" on the remote works fine so I can limp along, but I'll have to go through a lot of keystrokes after each time I modify the programming.

Post by **The Robman** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:03 am

The key here is that you're using a 6131. If you do a search you'll find that we've mentioned many times that the 6131 uses a different format for keymoves, so doing them in IR is difficult and should be avoided.

However, one you've entered a keymove using the remote, you can clone it using IR if needed.

The authors of IR are looking into modifying IR to handle the new keymove format.

zaphod7501 · Post by **zaphod7501** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:40 am

I type too slow , I started this reply before Rob responded and I have to edit it before I finished it (I'm not going to retype the whole thing) -- but what Rob just said -- and note my third paragraph on odd things because this applies to what happens if you clone a keymove and then try to change the bound device or key.

I've got 5 of the 6131's and love it -- but you can't do a normal keymove with IR on this remote. If you search the forum enough you'll find what you need to do. Basically , you need to select hex for the command type but enter 00 XX , where XX is the desired EFC converted to hexadecimal with a scientific calculator. Just ignore the numbers which show up in IR's display and it will work.

A few odd things will also occur. The keymoves generated within KeyMaster (KM) or RemoteMaster (RM) work without modification when pasted in as an uograde device (unless you try to modify them with IR). If your keymove is working and you change the bound device or bound key , you will have to enter the EFC->HEX manually again. If you used RM (or KM ?) to add "external functions" It will NOT calculate those keymoves correctly and you will have to re-enter the EFC->HEX manually. (I discovered this bug thinking I could get around the keymove oddity by using RM to add the keymoves from other device codes in a customized upgrade device)

If you look at the memory available on IR's bottom row , you will see a lot of upgrade memory and very little keymove/macro memory (on a device with 2k eeprom) and very little of each on a current UEI (1k eeprom) official upgrade. This makes the 2k version a prime candidate for an extender ("normal" keymove available) but with the 1k version you will have to be very innovative to create complicated upgrades.

Mark Pierson · Post by **Mark Pierson** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:53 pm

zaphod7501 wrote:If you used RM (or KM ?) to add "external functions" It will NOT calculate those keymoves correctly and you will have to re-enter the EFC->HEX manually. (I discovered this bug thinking I could get around the keymove oddity by using RM to add the keymoves from other device codes in a customized upgrade device)

I just checked and KM does indeed create the correct hex format for external function key moves on the 6131.

Post by **The Robman** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:14 pm

Also, just FYI, the 6131 uses 2 keymove formats. The first, as described by Zaph, uses 2 bytes where the first byte is 00 and the second byte is the hex representation of the EFC. This is the format that it will use if you program an advanced code manually on the remote. The second format is used when you copy a button from one location to another on the remote itself. This format uses just 1 byte which contains the keycode of the button that you copied from.

So, if you're running out of keymove memory and have upgrade memory to spare, you should create a dummy upgrade which contains all the EFCs that you need to program via keymoves, then copy the buttons from this upgrade to make keymoves. This way each keymove will use a total of 5 bytes of memory, rather than 6.

mvgossman · Post by **mvgossman** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:35 am

Actually I did do the 6131 shuffle, namely take the code, convert to hex, and do the 00 XX construction in IR, so that's not it. I've done that dozens of time for other remotes and it works fine. Strangely the volume pass-thrus to all but the AUD and VCR modes work just fine, and the manual keymoves on the remote itself using 994 work just fine, and I assume the 994 accomplishes the exact same thing as the IR keymove construction.

Could it have something to do with the use of 0003 code which is an existing code instead of the "1003" renaming? I'm reaching here I assume.

Mitch
[I confess to ignorance at this point as to what IR is doing with the "Hex Cmd" and "EFC or Key Name" columns which, in the case of Vol+ OBC=003 causes $46 $20 and 154x to appear there.]

Mark Pierson · Post by **Mark Pierson** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:58 am

mvgossman wrote: [I confess to ignorance at this point as to what IR is doing with the "Hex Cmd" and "EFC or Key Name" columns which, in the case of Vol+ OBC=003 causes $46 $20 and 154x to appear there.]

Does your TV/0003 upgrade use 2-byte commands (the $46 $20 above seems to indicate so). If that's the case, you CANNOT use 2-byte command key moves on the unextended 6131. You should still be able to do the key moves on the remote itself using the 994 command, but remember that IR will not display or interpret them correctly.

mvgossman · Post by **mvgossman** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:07 am

I am lookig at my KM Functions, and the Byte2 column is grayed-out so I would say no.

Mark Pierson wrote:
mvgossman wrote: [I confess to ignorance at this point as to what IR is doing with the "Hex Cmd" and "EFC or Key Name" columns which, in the case of Vol+ OBC=003 causes $46 $20 and 154x to appear there.]
Does your TV/0003 upgrade use 2-byte commands (the $46 $20 above seems to indicate so). If that's the case, you CANNOT use 2-byte command key moves on the unextended 6131. You should still be able to do the key moves on the remote itself using the 994 command, but remember that IR will not display or interpret them correctly.

mr_d_p_gumby · Post by **mr_d_p_gumby** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:27 am

Mark Pierson wrote:Does your TV/0003 upgrade use 2-byte commands (the $46 $20 above seems to indicate so).

No, the TV/0003 upgrade is using NEC 005A, so it's a single byte command. That of course begs the question as to where the $46 $20 being entered in the keymoves is coming from.

mvgossman wrote:I am lookig at my KM Functions, and the Byte2 column is grayed-out so I would say no.

The KM Byte2 column does not enter into this at all. If the Hex column shows two bytes, then it is a two-byte command. That is not the case for your TV/0003 upgrade. So, where did you come up with $46 $20 to enter into the keymove?

In your TV/0003 upgrade, the power button has an EFC of 118. To enter that into a 6131 keymove, you need to convert 118 into a hexadecimal number (which you can do with the Windows calculator applet in Scientific mode). 118 decimal is 76 hex, so you would enter the keymove in IR (using the Hex Cmd option) as $00 $76. IR will NOT display a meaningful interpretation of this, but it will work.

Alternatively, you could also enter the keymove in IR (still using the Hex Cmd option) as a button number, which for the Power button would be $03. Both methods will work.

mvgossman · Post by **mvgossman** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:36 pm

I found the simplest of errors. I had used the OBC and not the EFC copied from the KM definition and entered into IR manually with the two byte "00 xx" hex conversion.

I might just start using KM instead of IR to do keymoves, but it does introduce the extra copying step which is

I have searched and searched for a succinct definition of the relationships between EFC, OBC, Hex, key numbers and al that jargon. Anyone have a good link for dummies?

Mitch