DSM on 6131

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:06 pm

Dave Sampson wrote:Success! The new device upgrade for the 921 has duration control. There is a note on the first sheet and a column. Very nice-Thank You P Brown. I also was having problems with my Dish HD Monitor not receiving codes. So I took your advice again and went to the latest upgrade. No note or mention of duration. But after searching I found a protocol with duration on the sheet. Problem fixed again.

If the upgrade in your IR file is this one, then I am again puzzled, since in your IR file, you have not set ANY duration for ANY of the functions, although your upgrade clearly uses the Device Combiner protocol.

I think you DEFINITELY have room to gain some upgrade memory.

I think you may be able to accrue SOME by combining the protocol upgrades for the RCA Combo with the Device Combiner, but I'd really like to see your actual upgrades (KM or RM) that you uploaded to your IR file to see.

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:47 pm

As an example of what I wrote above, I took what I presumed to be your source files for the Dish PVR and RCA TV and put ALL of the devices contained therein into the Device Combiner. Your setup sheet would have to look like this:

Code: Select all

Protocol ID's	        Fixed Data Hex	    #
00 02	                00 00 80 00 00	    0 x
00 02	                00 80 80 00 00	    1 x
00 AF	                FF	                2 x
00 AF	                7F	                3 x
00 AF	                5F	                4 x
00 AF	                EF	                5 x

And your 0144 protocol upgrade would increase from 85 bytes to 101 bytes, while you eliminate the 28-byte 0143 protocol. Net gain - 12 bytes.

Your Dish device upgrade would be essentially unchanged (but I would add the digits as described in previous posts), but your TV upgrade would have to be completely redone using THIS newly-created Device Combiner protocol, but would likely be no larger or smaller (since every button assignment still uses two bytes of data), and you have the duration control option available for both the Dish and the RCA.

Post by **ElizabethD** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:41 pm

johnsfine wrote:I'm not sure what DSM's do inside a macro without an extender.

Nothing

Unextended 8910 & 7800 versions of LKP, DSM first check if running inside a macro, exit immediately if yes. Other remotes might be different. 2116 is the same (basis for above) - ignore DSM, do nothing. These are the only ones I know a bit about, others might be different. If I recall, the remaining steps of a macro are unaffected.

Dave Sampson · Post by **Dave Sampson** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:24 am

OK, lets try this.

I had a bunch of unneeded protocols because I was learning the extender on this and was installing and removing a lot of things. Some of which was not removed. The extender also installed toad tog and 3 other functions. I removed them as suggested if they werent being used-however I left their protocols. I just had some brain fade on using the Amp twice and not doing what I needed with phantom keys-that is resolved.

I started over with a fresh extender installed. Removed unused functions including protocols. Followed Elizabeth and the Capns advice and installed the little device that moves DSMs to the Special Functions Tag. I have also taken advantage of Johnsfine advice to use cloaking.

The finished product gave me over 200 bytes of additional upgrade space. It works well and hopefully makes a lot more sense to you! Capn I have included the IR file and the KM files used as you asked.

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2948
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2950
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2949
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2952
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2951

The only problem I have now is the DSMs were moved to the Special Functions tab but when I go to save them I get a message saying I have not installed the protocol and they wont work - they do though? I know the 6131 installs an 'invisible' DSM and some of that may be conflicting?

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:15 pm

Dave Sampson wrote: The only problem I have now is the DSMs were moved to the Special Functions tab but when I go to save them I get a message saying I have not installed the protocol and they wont work - they do though? I know the 6131 installs an 'invisible' DSM and some of that may be conflicting?

Not an expert on the 6131 DSMs (I'm expecting to receive my first 6131 and will likely have to learn any day now

) BUT...

Try them. You can tell US if they work.

Dave Sampson · Post by **Dave Sampson** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:27 pm

Not an expert on the 6131 DSMs (I'm expecting to receive my first 6131 and will likely have to learn any day now Twisted Evil ) BUT...

Try them. You can tell US if they work.

Oh yes they work fine. Either 'Add' or 'Edit'. Just have extra step of acknowledging message. But no sweat. The other nice thing is before I had to enter hex values for the keys, now they are on pull down. Much nicer.
Thanks for the help and patience Capn.

I assume you know of the two different 6131s. I have both and like the old silver (non N) best. But I really like them(have 5)! Good Luck.

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:31 pm

I DEFINITELY prefer the old (non-"n") model and that is what I am getting. Hopefully it will meet my needs. If not today, it will someday.

Post by **ElizabethD** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:41 pm

Dave Sampson wrote:Just have extra step of acknowledging message. But no sweat.

Every time 6131 DSM keymove is built or edited it gets the message that unless the device is in IR it won't work. It's a feature

I guess IR doesn't see it in some places. Once you added the device, the message can just be acknowledged, as you saw.

Capn Trips wrote:I'm expecting to receive my first 6131 and will likely have to learn any day now

It has a fabulous extender. Seems easier than the 8910. But I really, really miss the unlabelled macro and learning keys of the 8910. I also miss the LED that I can see. In the 6131 it's covered by your finger. Tough to count the blips of a macro when you're debugging. Oh, they also forgot to include the LCD

gfb107 · Post by **gfb107** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:19 pm

I think you can solve this by adding a dummy protocol in addition to the dummy device.

Code: Select all

Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 FC (S3C80) Dummy DSM
 00
End

Post by **ElizabethD** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:33 pm

I presume you do this to prevent the message?
Ok, I just looked in IR. Indeed the message no longer nags you.
But, how can that work if inside the remote the extender already has that protocol, won't the added protocol interfere? I'm gonna try it.

Bit later edited: Wow! That works. No problem in the remote. WHY

gfb107 · Post by **gfb107** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:52 pm

It works because the extender recognizes the DSM by it's setup code (TV/1103), and doesn't actually call the protocol to do the work. The DSM support is coded directly in the extender itself.

We add the dummy device and dummy protocol to make IR work the way we want, but neither is needed for the remote to do what we want.

I've asked before for an enhancement to IR's special function support that would allow the RDF to specify that the required device and protocol are built in and that upgrades aren't required, but never got much uptake on that idea.

Post by **ElizabethD** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:03 pm

Greg, thanks for explaining and for the reference. I've been there before but it wasn't clear to me, then, what the nuances of the issue really were till really working with 6131

mr_d_p_gumby · Post by **mr_d_p_gumby** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:22 am

gfb107 wrote:I've asked before for an enhancement to IR's special function support that would allow the RDF to specify that the required device and protocol are built in and that upgrades aren't required, but never got much uptake on that idea.

This same problem also exists for the Atlas DVR extender (since it is based on the URC-6131 version). I know it's currently only these two remotes, but I agree it would be nice to have the RDF specify the built-in status. Hal did such a nice job making the DSM work this way, it's a shame IR (unintentionally) complicates things.