Discrete video inputs (Multiple/Nested ToadTogs?)

[Capn Trips]

I addressed this dilemma about a year ago, and ultimately got a solution that worked without using ToadTog. I have, however, added a new component and am now facing this problem anew.

I have a 2117 with extender 2. My problem is with video input selection.

I have three video input selections available on my NEC 42MP3. They are Video, DVD/HD, and RGB. These three selectors select inputs as follows:

"Video" - toggles between Video 1 (composite)/Video 2 (s-video) but if in ANOTHER mode (DVD/HD or RGB) it returns to the most recently-selected Video input;
"DVD/HD" - ALSO toggles between DVD/HD 1 and DVD/HD 2 but if in another mode, returns to the most-recently selected DVD/HD mode.
"RGB" - toggles between three possible RGB inputs. (basically unused)

Now I almost never use these buttons directly, but embed them in my device selection macros. The root of the problem is that none of the three buttons will get me to a KNOWN input state, but instead takes to the LAST input for that "family" of inputs.

I use THREE of the video inputs:
(a) Video2 (s-video input from my receiver which switches the VCR and Dish s-video inputs),
(b) DVD/HD1 (my DVD player) and
(c) DVD/HD2 (my OTA HD rcvr).

I can't figure out what sequence or combination of ToadTogs to set up to get the appropriate number of "DVD/HD" signals sent in all circumstances. I set up a ToadTog to get HD1 and HD2 toggling correctly between themselves, but if I switch to Video2, I don't have the toggle tracked, so that when I re-select HD1 or HD2, I get the incorrect number of signals sent.

Example: If I'm in already in HD mode and select HD, I need "HD" NOT sent. If I'm in DVD mode and I select HDTV - I need "HD" sent once, if I'm in video2 (s-video) - and I select HDTV, I may need "HD" sent once if I was in HDTV mode before, but I may need it TWICE if I was in DVD mode previously.

Any idee-ers?

P.S. I have a workaround set up such that for both DVD and HD modes, I have the input select signal sent ONCE, and since I have working discretes (or ToadTogs) for all of my other power and input settings, if it switches me to the wrong DVD/HD input, I have trained my family to just press that same device selection macro again, and it switches back, but I'd prefer a more elegant functioning solution.

P.P.S. Whether it's an example of near-complete control of my A-V system or gross inefficiency, my 2117 is so packed with upgrades and keymoves and macros, that I have 1 byte of upgrade space remaining and 57 bytes for keymoves/macros.

[jon_armstrong]

Here is my list of NEC Plasma commands. Not all commands work for all units, but you might try these to see if there are discretes. If NOT, what are these Plasma manufacturer's thinking. There are a lot worse stories from Samsung and Philips.

Obviously, use at your own risk but I doubt if a valid command on one plasma would be some sort of reset on another.

NEC1:24
OBC EFC
008 053 On Discrete / or On /Off in some models
009 057 SVC
010 055 Video
015 058 Display
030 246 sleep
070 166 + Contrast:
071 170 -Contrast:
072 037 +color:
073 041 -color:
074 039 +Brightness:
075 043 -Brightness:
076 036 +Tint:
077 040 -Tint:
078 038 +Sharpness:
079 042 -Sharpness:
085 104 Video1:
086 102 Video2:
087 106 Video3:
088 229 RGB/PC
088 229 PC RGB / Random RGB:

NEC1:24.24
028 244 DVD/HD
173 096 Wide / Format / Zoom
176 157 Up Arrow
177 161 Down Arrow
178 159 Left Arrow
179 163 Right Arrow
180 156 Menu
181 160 OK
192 173 Off
193 177 RGB/PC1:
194 175 RGB/PC2:
195 179 RGB/PC3:
196 172 PROCEED
197 176 Exit
200 045 ID SELECT
201 049 POINTER
202 047 ZOOM + (plus)
203 051 ZOOM – (minus)
204 044 MULTI
205 048 SELECT
220 236 DVD2 (component BNC):
235 083 DVD1 (component RCA):

NEC1:24.231
002 000 VOLUME + (plus)
003 000 VOLUME – (minus)
008 000 POWER ON
009 000 MUTE
010 000 VIDEO
015 000 DISPLAY
025 000 K39
025 000 CLEAR
030 000 OFF TIMER
031 000 AUTO ADJUST

[Capn Trips]

Well, I'll be damned!

I have gone through this so many times I could puke - for over a year and a half. I've decoded CCF files, used EFC lists gracioulsy provided both here and over at RC, and MY plasma (NEC 42MP3) NEVER correctly responded to video input discretes.

But today, noticing Jon's list contained THREE different sub-device numbers (I had previously only been aware of two), I decided to give it another go (since I didn't really recall all of the combinations I had tried over the months).

Of the OBCs provided above, the RGB and HD discretes (device 24.24) suddenly WORKED! While the video discretes (device 24) did NOT!

This made no sense, so, noticing that the video toggle OBC 10 was listed TWICE (dev 24 and dev 24.231) I decided to give the video discretes a try with device 24.231

and lo and behold ... THEY WORK!

Man I tell ya, the man-hours expended over the months on this single challenge has been daunting. Needless to say, I am quite pleased to have stumbled onto this. I'm truly amazed that nobody has stumbled onto this sooner (I suppose I should go through and try all 256 EFCs in all three device/subdevice combinations to truly complete the list - perhaps someday) but I am quite thrilled that I have at long last leaped this hurdle.

Thanks again Jon (and all who lurk and help here).

[Capn Trips]

Of course, I now have the problem of updating my Plasma device upgrade to include these three discrete functions, since as I wrote earlier, I have only 1 byte left in my upgrade space, and adding three button definitions to the device upgrade will exceed that 1 byte.

I suppose I'll just have to do it via keymoves Less efficient use of memory, BUT if that's the only place I have the room, then that's what it'll have to be, eh?

[jon_armstrong]

I'm glad it worked. I only recently got a spreadsheet with the expanded 24.24 and 24.233 commands on them from a professional AV installer (I translated the commands into Pronto hex for him with John's MakeHex).

As far as space, I seem to recall that you were using the device combiner. If you are going to use key moves any way see if you can keymove enough keys to avoid the combiner. It think the protcol upgrade for it is something like 125 bytes plus the device upgrade that depends on how many commands you use.

[Capn Trips]

I'm glad it worked. I only recently got a spreadsheet with the expanded 24.24 and 24.233 commands on them from a professional AV installer .

I assume you mean 24.231

As far as space, I seem to recall that you were using the device combiner. If you are going to use key moves any way see if you can keymove enough keys to avoid the combiner. It think the protcol upgrade for it is something like 125 bytes plus the device upgrade that depends on how many commands you use.

I understand the deal with the Device Combiner, and have tried multiple ways to work around it, BUT I have found no effective way to get my Dish PVR 501 commands to work properly without the duration control provided by the DC. If I've read correctly, I believe there's an upgraded 00 02 protocol for DishNetwork that solves this problem, but the 2117 apparently has the older version which gives me the problems, but to use an upgraded protocol, I need a device upgrade anyway, so the extra flexibility the DC adds (a handful of CD changer commands requiring duration control in macros) is worth the memory it eats to me.

Anyway, since I've re-done all of my macros to eliminate unnecessary ToadTogs (only one left - "Power" for my Samsung OTA HDTV box) and shifted to all of these newly-identified discretes, I have actually reclaimed some upgrade memory (7 bytes left) and have my remote for the first time doing PRECISELY what I want!

The Holy Grail does exist!

And I cannot for the life of me imagine anyone with a Kameleon or Home Theater Master, or even a Pronto, having any more practical functionality than I have. Heck, I don't even need the LCD diplay on the 2117, but it's a bone for the wife and kids, so they can see what mode it's in - particularly useful with the Custom Mode Name special protocol, so that when one pushes the "Aux" button, the LCD says "Laserdisc", and when the "CBL" button, it says "HDTV".

[jon_armstrong]

I glad you solved your problem. If you ever do need more memory, I guess you rip that CD collection and we can easily give you a protocol upgrade for Dish

[jon_armstrong]

BTW,

Would you please post your device upgrade. Maybe keep all the commands in the functions tab and just note (and assign buttons for) the ones that work for your model in the notes. That way the next person with a NEC Plasma may not have to work so hard!

[Capn Trips]

Would you please post your device upgrade. Maybe keep all the commands in the functions tab and just note (and assign buttons for) the ones that work for your model in the notes.

That's my intention, but I want to do a "complete" job which I can't get to today, but hopefully by the end of the week I will have tested some of the more elusive functions that haven't worked previously, but MAY with the new 24.231 device, and I'll post as complete a list as I can verify.

[The Robman]

For this sort of thing, it's usually a good idea to load what you have so far, then if and when you get the time to make the file more complete, delete the old file and replace it with a new one.

Otherwise, it's possible that you'll never quite get around to doing the complete file and then you'll forget to load anything up.

[Capn Trips]

HERE is my best consolidation of the NEC Plasma RM upgrade file.

Many of the listed functions are gleaned from various sources (summarized in the above listing - thanks, Jon ) for NEC Plasmas. There are three Device/Subdevice combinations used, 24, 24.24, and 24.231.

As I tested more and more of the signals, I noticed on my 42MP3, NONE of the device "24" signals worked . I believe this is related to a difference between the way RM and KM process input data. My old KM upgrade used only devices 24 and 24.24 and a fair number of the signals in the upgrade worked. In RM, however, NO signal built with device 24 worked, while 24.24 and 24.231 signals DID.

Looking closer, I notice that RM forces a "0" for the subdevice when it's left blank, making it 24.0 rather than 24. This results in a different hex code for the KM generated signals (device 24) versus the RM-generated signals (device 24.0). HOWEVER, the KM-generated hex codes for functions using device 24 WITHOUT any subdevice, is the same as for 24.231 in RM!

So, it appears to me that there are only two device/subdevice combinations in this device, but they vary depending on what software is used to generate the upgrade.

For KM, use devices 24 and 24.24
For RM, use devices 24.231 and 24.24

Does this make ANY sense whatsoever?

[johnsfine]

That all makes perfect sense.
In that protocol, the way the lack of a subdevice is represented is by sending a value in the subdevice field that is equal to 255 minus the device number (255 minus 24 is 231).

In a non combo upgrade, both KM and RM are coded to know the meaning of a missing subdevice number. But in a combo upgrade, that is trickier for RM (than in a non combo) and it apparently isn't right, so you need to compute the special subdevice number yourself.

[jon_armstrong]

I was obviously a little slow to realize that NEC1:24.231 really IS NEC1:24 but I guess stupidity had some benefical results

[gfb107]

The reason RM defaults the sub-device to 0 is because that's the way that protocols.ini is written. Using 255-device could be accomplished with a custom translator, or we could enhance the default-value notation to cover this scenario.

In this case, we need an index into the device parms. Maybe using curly braces around the index of the device parm, sort of like we use square braces now to indicate an index into the cmd parms?

[gfb107]

Well, it turns out that we already have this support using square brackets. I'll enhance it to allow using a - to indicate the default value is the complement of the indexed dev parm.

Now I've got to change the way the Function table works so that it doesn't null out the hex command when a cmd parm that has a default value is set to null.

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