Help with URC-8090B00 and device combining

[mikemcgo]

Hi. My DVD player (Sony DVP-CX875P) uses mostly Sony 20 26.73 codes, but has some buttons that are Sony 20 26.98. I am using all 8 device buttons on my remote, so I need these to be combined under one device button. I tried using the
Sony_DVPCX875P.zip
file from the Yahoo group (unmapping enough keys to get under the 50 byte limit on 740-based remotes), but _none_ of the keys work.
I tried uploading the codes as two seperate devices, and all worked fine.
I then tried doing keymoves from one device to the other on the remote itself, but none of the keymoves worked.
Am I running into some 740-related issue?

If I can't use the Sony Combo protocol, is there any use trying it with Device Combiner?
I don't understand these yet, but would device toggling or multiplexing help?
If I ever do get it working, what is the workaround for the 50 byte limit so that I can map all the keys?

Thanks in advance,
Mike

[gjarboni]

Hi. My DVD player (Sony DVP-CX875P) uses mostly Sony 20 26.73 codes, but has some buttons that are Sony 20 26.98. I am using all 8 device buttons on my remote, so I need these to be combined under one device button. I tried using the
Sony_DVPCX875P.zip
file from the Yahoo group (unmapping enough keys to get under the 50 byte limit on 740-based remotes), but _none_ of the keys work.
I tried uploading the codes as two seperate devices, and all worked fine.
I then tried doing keymoves from one device to the other on the remote itself, but none of the keymoves worked.
Am I running into some 740-related issue?

There are two issues. First the 8090B00 has a bug that prevents device upgrades from using an protocol on the eeprom (= a protocol pasted into IR). That's why the upgrade wouldn't work at all, but the individual upgrades did -- the Sony protocol is built in to the remote, but the Sony Combo protocol isn't. The way around this bug is to define the device as a "device-specific" upgrade when you paste it into IR.

Second, there's a bug in KM (fixed in the latest version) that deletes the 4th byte of fixed data (which will mess up the function to button mappings) so make sure you download the latest KM.

[Mark Pierson]

Second, there's a bug in KM (fixed in the latest version)

The version with the fix hasn't been made available yet. I've got some other issues to iron out before it will be ready, so give me a day or two.

[gjarboni]

Second, there's a bug in KM (fixed in the latest version)

The version with the fix hasn't been made available yet. I've got some other issues to iron out before it will be ready, so give me a day or two.

Sorry, that's what happens when I speak from memory Anyway, mikemcgo, if you want you can still try the device as an device-specific upgrade -- that way we can confirm that you were running into the first problem I mentioned and not some other issue.

[mikemcgo]

Thanks, but I don't think that's the problem. I have successfully added:
VCR 618 with protocol $41 (restricted to SAT)
DVD 533 with protocol $DE (restricted to CD)
AMP/TUN 520/521 with protocol $0144 (restricted to AMP/TUN)

but trying the above as:
DVD 1533 with protocol $27 (restricted to CD) doesn't work.

The "Include in device independent selection as well" box was unchecked in all cases.

By the way, $DE didn't seem to be built in.

Thanks,
Mike


New Topic---------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking of upgrades to KM, I was trying to figure out why the Buttons sheet doesn't allow mapping functions onto certain shifted (Magic) keys. I tested keymoves to Magic-Mute and Magic-PrevCH on the remote itself and they worked fine. I would also expect Menu, Up, Down, Left, Right, Select, PIP, Play, Pause, REW, FF, Stop, and Center to accept magic keymoves. Are there ANY actual buttons (besides maybe [Device Keys], Shift, Esc, Lite, and Magic) that wouldn't work with a Magic keymove?

A change that would clear all of this up would be:
When mapping functions to buttons I have to remember that Rear is a psuedo-key while Center is an actual key. What I would love to see would be:
Column B: names of actual keys only (+virtual keys at end)
Column C: mapping for actual key
Column D: mapping for magic+actual key (Labelled Magic, NOT Shift)
Column E: mapping for shift+actual key (Labelled Shift)
Column F: could have the names of the shifted (Shift) keys

This way I could quickly look at Center, Shift+Center, and Magic+Center; never having to think of Rear at all.

E and F would have gray boxes for non-shifted (Shift) and virtual keys

Just my 2 cents.
Keep up the great work!

[The Robman]

If it's a new topic, start a new topic for it. In this case, it should go in the Software folder as your suggesting a change to KM.

[Mark Pierson]

Speaking of upgrades to KM, I was trying to figure out why the Buttons sheet doesn't allow mapping functions onto certain shifted (Magic) keys. I tested keymoves to Magic-Mute and Magic-PrevCH on the remote itself and they worked fine. I would also expect Menu, Up, Down, Left, Right, Select, PIP, Play, Pause, REW, FF, Stop, and Center to accept magic keymoves. Are there ANY actual buttons (besides maybe [Device Keys], Shift, Esc, Lite, and Magic) that wouldn't work with a Magic keymove?

Blame the remote, not KM!

The problem is that the shifted version of several buttons are defined in the default key maps. For example, Magic-Mute=Sleep, Magic-PrevCh=Display. KM shows the shifted version grayed out because it's already defined as something else on the Buttons sheet.

[Nils_Ekberg]

Mikemcgo

Have you taken a look at RM (RemoteMaster)? Most of what you are asking for is already in there. If you are not familiar with RM it is basically a Java version of KM for creating device upgrades. In defense of KM, it is a wonderful tool that takes great advantage of Excel and makes it act like a real application as oppossed to a spreadsheet.

The RDF files that are used by RM and IR (KM does not use the RDF file) has the buttons names the way you are suggesting. In other words, the name of the button might be Center{Rear} where Center is the real button name and that inside the { }'s is the pseudo or alternate name of the button.

Also, you will notice that the "Magic" button is labeled Magic[Setup] to indicate that Magic is the real button name and because it is in [] that setup is the common name. If there is a real shift button on the remote it is labeled shift.

I am not an expert on this particular remote but there may actually be restrictions on what buttons can be shifted so make sure they actually work for you when you shift them.

[mikemcgo]

Hi. KM 8.14 solved my problem!

I was only able to map 19 buttons before running into the 50-byte memory limit. Ideally I would like to map 33 more, I just have to figure out how. I am almost out of Keymove space. Any tips?

My comments about improving KM were meant to be constructive, no blame intended. I am amazed at what it can do.

I took a look at RM, it looks promising. I have the 1.14 versions of the RDFs, but it looks like the one for the 8080/8090B00's hasn't been updated with Xshift/Shift info. In the one KM file I imported, only about half the mappings survived. I am very close to what I want now with KM, so unless RM has something KM doesn't I'll stick with it for now.

I think I have a handle on Shift=Magic versus Xshift=Shift. I believe Xshift+Mute=Display and Xshift+PrevCH=Display. That should leave both Magic+Mute and Magic+PrevCH unbound.

I'm learning quite a bit, thanks for the help.
Mike

[Nils_Ekberg]

I am not familiar enough with this remote to give you the right answers on why the RDF's do not include xshift. xshift is typically added with an extender and I am not sure if the basic remote has the xshift capability or requires it. Maybe some one with more knowledge on this remote can jump in and if it is as easy as an RDF change we can fix that.

If you want to try it , add this XShift=$C0 to the end of the general section of the RDF then give it a try and see if they work. This will allow you to define them in IR or RM but not KM but will not force the remote to use them if it can't.

By the way, I did not think you were laying blame anywhere, I was just pointing out your options

[gjarboni]

Hi. KM 8.14 solved my problem!

I was only able to map 19 buttons before running into the 50-byte memory limit. Ideally I would like to map 33 more, I just have to figure out how. I am almost out of Keymove space. Any tips?

There's a beta version of an 8080B00 extender that hasn't been released. I need a tester to finish ironing out a few bugs. If you are willing, that would probably help with your memory issues (if you're putting in keymoves to get VPT on all your devices, for example). It also will allow you to put keymoves and/or macros on any button.

I think I have a handle on Shift=Magic versus Xshift=Shift. I believe Xshift+Mute=Display and Xshift+PrevCH=Display. That should leave both Magic+Mute and Magic+PrevCH unbound.

I'm almost certain that isn't correct. The difference between the Shift key and the Magic key is that certain keys (Rew,Stop,Ff,Play, etc.) can only be shifted with the Shift key. Other keys can only be shifted with the setup key. I've just verified this on the 8800. Unfortunately, my 8080B02 (the closest remote I own) is dead Actually, Hal gave it to me, so it's not really mine, but anyway, it's not working.

To me this behavior is ridiculously annoying. Getting rid of it was one of the primary reasons for my writing extenders for the 740 remotes in the first place.

[mikemcgo]

Hi. Here is a link to the 8090 manual that describes the Shift and Magic functionality that I am referring to. One correction is that it lists 11 shiftable keys when there are 15, it omits up, down, left, and right. A clarification: The "Setup" key is labelled Magic on the 8090.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/manuals/p8/o ... 8090#shift

I tested out the 15 shiftable keys under both a TV device and a VCR device.

The results for TV are:
all 15 buttons worked un-shifted and Magic-shifted
8 buttons worked shift-shifted (up{menu up}, down{menu down},center{rear}, menu{prog}, select{clear}, mute{sleep}, PrevCH{Disp}, PIP{Freeze})
So I was able to map 38 functions to these 15 buttons

The results for VCR are:
all 15 buttons worked un-shifted and Magic-shifted
10 buttons worked shift-shifted (center{rear}, menu{prog}, select{clear}, PrevCH{Disp}, PIP{Freeze}, REW{Slow -}, Play{Slow}, FF{Slow +}, Stop{Eject}, Pause{X2})
So I was able to map 40 functions to these 15 buttons

The device type limitations of the shift-shifted buttons coincide with the Layout tab of KM. I did the un-shifted and shift-shifted mapping with KM/IR. I did the magic-shifted mapping using keymoves on the remote itself. Afterwards, I downloaded the remote to IR. I could see all 30 keymoves. The only keymoves that had the Shift box checked were those for "Shift-Left" and "Shift-Right", all of the other keymoves had the Shift box grayed out. The names in the Bound Key box are the names of the shift-shifted keys (those in curly quotes above). The manual I linked to above states that you can't keymove a function from or to a shift-shifted button, so I see no reason to ever list the shift-shifted keyname in the Bound Key box. What we should see there would be the un-shifted button name or the un-shifted button name with some indicator that it is magic-shifted (e.g. Center or *Center). It looks like the only way to assign a function to a shift-shifted button is mapping it in a device upgrade.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It looks like keymoves won't help me with my problem. As I mentioned in my first post, even when I had the two seperate device codes uploaded and working, I wasn't able to get a keymove between the two to work. I can't remember where I read it, but I did see a statement saying "the Producer 8 doesn't support multibyte keymoves". I believe it.

I would love to try out your extender, what do I need to do?
What is the extender supposed to do? Any hope of removing the 50-byte upgrade limit, like in your 8780/8800/9800 extender? What about the multibyte keymove limit?

Thanks,
Mike

[gjarboni]

I can't remember where I read it, but I did see a statement saying "the Producer 8 doesn't support multibyte keymoves". I believe it.

You probably saw this quote looking at something written by Scott. He wrote the device combiner/toggler/multiplexor protocols and other 740 things. That enable me to write the extenders we have today. But just one correction. The multi-byte keymove limit is only on the 8080 series. The 8780/8800/9800 series remotes support two byte keymoves (but nothing further).

I would love to try out your extender, what do I need to do?
What is the extender supposed to do? Any hope of removing the 50-byte upgrade limit, like in your 8780/8800/9800 extender? What about the multibyte keymove limit?

The extender will allow VPT for all devices (regardless of type, etc.), keymvoes and macros on any button and macros calling other macros. Right now it doesn't remove the 50 byte limit. I haven't looked at this extender in quite a while, so I don't know if I could squeeze that in or not. It doesn't support multibyte keymoves -- since only the 8080's have that limitation, I haven't looked into removing it, so I can't say how hard it would be.

Anyway, I don't have time right now to package the extender up, so you'll have to rough it a bit. I loaded the RDF for the extender to the Yahoo Diagonsis Area. Read and follow the instructions for the 8080B02 extender, except substitute this for the upgrade protocol:

00 00 01 CF 4F 68 68 38 A6 F6 A5 F5 E9 A5 B0 01
CA 3C 65 F7 3C 02 F8 85 60 86 61 3C FF F4 20 C4
86 3C 64 F7 3C 03 F8 A5 60 A6 61 1A E8 3C FF F4
20 C4 86 4C 65 02
20 43 89 67 39 03 20 81 9A 6F 39 20 DE 82 A5 CC
85 CE 20 09 88 20 09 88 20 F8 02 A2 1F 9A 12 D8
2F 0C 20 AD 83 3C 00 D0 20 FE 88 20 A3 8B 20 09
88 64 B4 D0 0C 47 B3 09 37 B0 03 20 A9 9F 20 46
8C EF 3E 3C 20 3F 57 B0 04 64 C5 F0 41 64 C5 F0
02 CF 3E 3C 00 19 A9 0F 25 B3 85 B3 EF 3B AF 3B
58 C2 BF 3B FF 3B BF 3F BF 3D DF 3E 5F 3E F7 C6
0D FF C6 A5 C6 C9 1E 90 C8 20 CF 9A 80 C0 97 B3
03 4C 65 02 77 39 BA 20 C0 8B 64 C5 D0 B3 20 19
8C 80 AB 3C 80 25 A2 1E 86 C5 CF 3E A5 CE 57 B0
09 17 B2 03 A7 B2 03 5F B0 60 D0 01 60 6F 52 6F
53 A5 CE C9 80 B0 3B C9 42 D0 07 3C 31 CE 20 51
93 60 C9 41 D0 03 7F 08 60 C9 40 D0 03 6F 08 60
C9 47 90 0E 38 E9 40 A2 00 E9 07 F0 03 E8 80 F9
86 B6 C9 45 90 0C D0 05 A5 B6 85 CD 60 A5 CD 85
B6 60 07 B2 03 20 62 93 47 B3 3E D7 5A 04 DF 5A
EF CE 20 08 97 90 35 20 8C 98 90 33 A5 CE C9 0F
F0 31 C9 1F F0 2D A5 CE C9 35 D0 05 8F 5A 4C 8D
9F 20 67 8E 20 13 85 B0 03 4C 4B 9D A6 B6 86 D3
E7 AD 03 4C 87 8D 4C 90 8D 4C 65 9C 4C D4 8D 4C
AD 03 60 CF 5A 4C 55 9F 6F 39 20 C7 95 29 0F 85
F4 8D 2E 02 A5 F5 48 A5 F6 48 A9 02 37 B2 01 3A
20 AF 95 20 B2 98 68 85 F6 68 85 F5 37 B2 0B AD
2F 02 E3 06 3C 04 DC 20 8A 94 3C 00 B1 3C 00 B4
3C 00 B5 AD 2E 02 F0 18 0F B2 CE 2E 02 A6 B1 E6
B1 BD 30 02 85 CE F0 EB 3C 01 D0 20 F8 02 80 E3
1F B2 3F B2 60 EA

Let me know how it goes.

Jason M.

[mikemcgo]

Hi. I got the extender installed with no problems. I am used to making device upgrades that use upgraded protocols be device restricted, but since the instructions didn't mention it, I didn't. It worked fine. Is this something specific to just the extender, or do I now no longer need to worry about this for any device when using the extender? I assume the features are the same as for the 8080B02 extender, which are:

1. Key moves or macros can be added to any button including the device buttons
2. Doesn't require that you press record twice
3. Both the MAGIC and SHIFT key act to shift the next key only
4. Keymoves or Macros can be assigned either to Magic (SETUP in IR) or shift
5. Volume punch through will now punch through to all devices. Key moves still take precendence over VPT.
6. Scan Functionality is enabled for any device, but keymoves and macros take precedence over SCAN, so if you don't like SCAN, assign a keymove or macro to it.
7. Discrete codes for backlight (LightOn, LightOff, & LightToggle). For more details see the Divergent Features document)
8. Macros can call other macros (if you want to put macros on the device keys, you need to read the Divergent Features document)
9. The only thing broken in the new RDF is the light key. If you want everything to be the same as it was without the extender, just put a macro on the Light key with LightToggle as the only command.

Here are my results:
1. not tested
2. couldn't test due to problem B, mentioned below
3. works
4. not tested
5. works. I used keymoves to undo it for Home Control device 167.
6. I think this must be specific to the 8080B02.
7. not tested, but keys do show up in IR. Virtual_P&P should be Virtual_Aux1. Should there be a Virtual_Cancel? Should it instead be Virtual_HomeTheater?
8. not tested
9. just as described

Problems:
A. Without the built-in menu system I can't set the time or the Home Theater button.
B. The following buttons don't work on any device, the red light doesn't come on:
Power, Up, Menu, Select, Enter, TV/Sat, PrevCH, Rewind, Play, FF, Pause, Stop, and Record.
C. Some keys aren't mapped correctly. One specific example is that both the un-shifted and magic-shifted functions mapped to Menu{Prog} are instead on the PIP{Freeze} button. I think Mute, Vol+-, CH+-, and the numbers are all right, but most of the other buttons seem swapped around.

For the items I didn't test, do you have specific examples of tests that would work only with the extender?

Thanks,
Mike

[gjarboni]

Hi. I got the extender installed with no problems. I am used to making device upgrades that use upgraded protocols be device restricted, but since the instructions didn't mention it, I didn't. It worked fine. Is this something specific to just the extender, or do I now no longer need to worry about this for any device when using the extender?

I assume that this is only the case with the extender (although I haven't tested it). The extender is strange in that it doesn't send a signal and doesn't care what keycode or EFC is passed to it.

I assume the features are the same as for the 8080B02 extender, which are:

You're correct the feature list is the same.

Here are my results:
1. not tested
2. couldn't test due to problem B, mentioned below
3. works
4. not tested
5. works. I used keymoves to undo it for Home Control device 167.
6. I think this must be specific to the 8080B02.
7. not tested, but keys do show up in IR. Virtual_P&P should be Virtual_Aux1. Should there be a Virtual_Cancel? Should it instead be Virtual_HomeTheater?

Actually Virtual_Cancel doesn't do anything (besides change to a random device ). There probably should be a Virtual_HomeTheater (in case you want to put a macro on the Home Theater button), but there isn't one in this version of the extender.

8. not tested
9. just as described

Problems:
A. Without the built-in menu system I can't set the time or the Home Theater button.
B. The following buttons don't work on any device, the red light doesn't come on:
Power, Up, Menu, Select, Enter, TV/Sat, PrevCH, Rewind, Play, FF, Pause, Stop, and Record.
C. Some keys aren't mapped correctly. One specific example is that both the un-shifted and magic-shifted functions mapped to Menu{Prog} are instead on the PIP{Freeze} button. I think Mute, Vol+-, CH+-, and the numbers are all right, but most of the other buttons seem swapped around.

B & C remind me of a "copy-protection" feature found in some other UEI remotes. If you change a setup code too many times the remote scrambles the keypad. I hope that's the problem, because there's no way the extender should cause these kind of problems. Anyway, there's a new version below. Please give it a try and let me how it works.

For the items I didn't test, do you have specific examples of tests that would work only with the extender?

Thanks,
Mike

For 1 -- try putting a macro on a device button. (For example, TV). Don't reference that device (TV) in the macro. If you need to switch to the TV, use Virtual_TV. I'd have the macro switch to another device besides TV, that will provide you with confirmation that the macro ran.

For 4 -- You can put a macro or keymove on Shift.

For 8 - If the macro on TV works, have that call another macro (one that switches to a different device than the first one).

Here's the block of code:
00 00 01 CF 4F 68 68 38 A6 F6 A5 F5 E9 92 B0 01
CA 3C 65 F7 3C 02 F8 85 60 86 61 3C FF F4 20 C4
86 3C 64 F7 3C 03 F8 A5 60 A6 61 1A E8 3C FF F4
20 C4 86 4C 65 02
20 43 89 67 39 03 20 81 9A 6F 39 20 DE 82 A5 CC
85 CE 20 09 88 20 09 88 20 F3 02 A2 1F 9A 12 D8
2F 0C 20 AD 83 3C 00 D0 20 FE 88 20 A3 8B 20 09
88 64 B4 D0 0C 47 B3 09 37 B0 03 20 A9 9F 20 46
8C CF 3E 4F 3E 3C 20 3F 64 C5 F0 02 CF 3E 3C 00
19 A9 0F 25 B3 85 B3 EF 3B AF 3B 58 C2 BF 3B FF
3B BF 3F BF 3D DF 3E 5F 3E F7 C6 0D FF C6 A5 C6
C9 1E 90 CD 20 CF 9A 80 C5 97 B3 03 4C 65 02 77
39 BF 20 C0 8B 64 C5 D0 B8 20 19 8C 80 B0 3C 80
25 A2 1E 86 C5 EF 3E A5 CE D0 01 60 6F 52 6F 53
C9 80 B0 3B C9 42 D0 07 3C 31 CE 20 51 93 60 C9
41 D0 03 7F 08 60 C9 40 D0 03 6F 08 60 C9 47 90
0E 38 E9 40 A2 00 E9 07 F0 03 E8 80 F9 86 B6 C9
45 90 0C D0 05 A5 B6 85 CD 60 A5 CD 85 B6 60 07
B2 03 20 62 93 47 B3 3E D7 5A 04 DF 5A EF CE 20
08 97 90 35 20 8C 98 90 33 A5 CE C9 0F F0 31 C9
1F F0 2D A5 CE C9 35 D0 05 8F 5A 4C 8D 9F 20 67
8E 20 13 85 B0 03 4C 4B 9D A6 B6 86 D3 E7 AD 03
4C 87 8D 4C 90 8D 4C 65 9C 4C D4 8D 4C 9A 03 60
CF 5A 4C 55 9F 6F 39 20 C7 95 29 0F 85 F4 8D 2E
02 A5 F5 48 A5 F6 48 A9 02 37 B2 01 3A 20 AF 95
20 B2 98 68 85 F6 68 85 F5 37 B2 0B AD 2F 02 E3
06 3C 04 DC 20 8A 94 3C 00 B1 3C 00 B4 3C 00 B5
AD 2E 02 F0 18 0F B2 CE 2E 02 A6 B1 E6 B1 BD 30
02 85 CE F0 EB 3C 01 D0 20 F3 02 80 E3 1F B2 3F
B2 60 EA