DSM on 6131

Dave Sampson · Post by **Dave Sampson** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:14 am

I have been using this remote with your fine software for several years and am very pleased, but want to add the ability to select given channels from a key. A set of keys to browse among favorite channels.

I started by installing the extender and all worked well except for macros. There was a warning about them running faster. My Dish 921 refuses to cooperate. I have tried the various pauses but it appears to be a hold thing. A three digit channel will only enter the last digit if I hold the button down. Otherwise nothing. The existing power/select macros no longer work either.

I then tried just using a DSM protocol on the unextended remote. The only one I found was under Tools\Special Protocols\Special Protocols Spreadsheet v1.17. It does not appear to be for the 6131.

Could someone point me in the right direction please? Thanks for any help and especially thanks for a very fine, fun, and useful site!!!!

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:53 am

Ensure you are using the latest Dish Network Protocol. I had a Dish 501 and for the longest time had to use the Device Combiner protocol (very big) with its upgrade to allow me to tweak the duration (which was inherently too short). I no longer have any Dish components so have lost track, but I believe I have read some threads about newer Dish protocols that extend the duration. Search the forums and file section for Dish upgrades that mention this in the notes. You may not be able to use a built-in device code for the Dish, and will use up some upgrade memory, but to get the performance you want, it may be the only way.

If you can't find anything like that, then try building a Dish upgrade with Device Combiner - which allows you to set the duration (a setting of 3 or 4 works pretty iirc) - but you need the memory to spare.

Post by **ElizabethD** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:38 pm

Dave Sampson wrote:I then tried just using a DSM protocol on the unextended remote. The only one I found was under Tools\Special Protocols\Special Protocols Spreadsheet v1.17. It does not appear to be for the 6131.

Perhaps due to different keymove format, DSM for unextended 6131 doesn't seem to be around. So use extended, it's really a much more flexible thing, and tweek you Dish upgrade.

Dave Sampson · Post by **Dave Sampson** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:52 am

Thanks for the help. Elizabeth I thought the extender would be the ultimate answer until I ran into the macro problem. So now the Capn has given me something else to look at. I apologize for not thinking to try the latest device upgrade/protocol. The old one worked well and did everything I needed, so I just overlooked doing anything about it. You are also sending me into a new area with the Device Combiner. So I guess it is time to crack the books - er - I mean search the forums. Thanks again.

Dave Sampson · Post by **Dave Sampson** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:21 am

Success! The new device upgrade for the 921 has duration control. There is a note on the first sheet and a column. Very nice-Thank You P Brown. I also was having problems with my Dish HD Monitor not receiving codes. So I took your advice again and went to the latest upgrade. No note or mention of duration. But after searching I found a protocol with duration on the sheet. Problem fixed again. Its most all there you just have to search it out. A lot of work has gone into this software and thanks to everyone involved.

The only problem I have now is no problems. The remote is doing everything I can think of needing, so now what do I do? By the way I used the numbers as a matrix of favorite channels. The numbers I put as shifted since I seldom use them, especially now. I use the guide to select any channels that are not a macro. It is really working out well for me.

Thanks for the help!!!

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:47 am

Dave Sampson wrote: The numbers I put as shifted since I seldom use them, especially now.

Good news that everything is working for you.

I'd point out (can't tell whether you're doing it this way) that you don't need any keymoves to redefine the number functions to the shift-number keys. "Shift-anybutton", as long as no keymove or macro is assigned to it, will always execute the underlying function assigned to the unshifted current device, so if that's the "feature" (called shift-cloaking) you're using great. If not, you can save a handful of unnecessary keymoves (if you assigned the number functions to the shifted-number buttons)

Dave Sampson · Post by **Dave Sampson** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:24 am

OK Capn. Thanks again for the help/interest. Possibly I dont understand shift cloaking, but have gone out and done some more looking. I understand it to be a way to avoid looping within a macro. That is not exactly my problem here. I want to press '1' and have the macro '202' sent which gets me CNN. Press '2' and get '110' sent etc. I also want to be able to just enter the digit number 1 if needed. I need to let the remote know that I am pressing '1' in order to change stations or that I am pressing it as part of a station number. I could possibly use LKP but I think shift works better for me. Am I still missing something?

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:50 am

Dave Sampson wrote: Possibly I dont understand shift cloaking, but have gone out and done some more looking. I understand it to be a way to avoid looping within a macro.

It often gets involved in that issue. But that isn't central to the meaning of "shift cloaking".

There is a behavior designed into the extender, so that if you use an undefined shifted key it will fall back on the definition of the unshifted key from the upgrade, and not from any KeyMove, Macro, or learned signal.

So, if you have a KeyMove or Macro defined on the 1 key, and you don't have any KeyMove or macro defined for shift 1, and then you press shift 1, you get the signal for 1 defined inside the upgrade.

Dave Sampson wrote: That is not exactly my problem here.

It sure sounds to me like it is exactly your problem (assuming you're using an extender).

Dave Sampson wrote:I want to press '1' and have the macro '202' sent which gets me CNN. Press '2' and get '110' sent etc.

With an extender, the 2's in the 1 macro would each invoke the 2 macro, while the 1's in the 2 macro would each invoke the 1 macro. So with an extender, you would want to shift each of the digits inside the macro.

Without an extender, all macros are always hidden when inside a macro, so you wouldn't have that problem (I'm not sure what DSM's do inside a macro without an extender).

Dave Sampson wrote:I also want to be able to just enter the digit number 1 if needed. I need to let the remote know that I am pressing '1' in order to change stations or that I am pressing it as part of a station number. I could possibly use LKP but I think shift works better for me.

Shift cloaking solves that aspect of it as well (even without an extender).

Dave Sampson wrote:Am I still missing something?

I don't know. Did you define KeyMoves to make the shifted digits work? If not, you're already using shift cloaking. If so, you probably didn't need to.

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:51 pm

Just for curiosity's sake, could you upload your IR file? Then we MAY be able to identify any of the stumbling blocks referred to above that may not be explained clearly in the generic explanations we've tried to provide.

Dave Sampson · Post by **Dave Sampson** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:55 am

Sorry to be so slow with this Capn. My company had me traveling around (NY & TX). I have placed the file in the diagnosis area and hope to get the right link sent. This is not something I have much experience with.

I think from Johnsfine's message that I have created a bunch of keymoves to place the numbers on shifted numbers that would just go there by default. I have plenty of Move/Macro space but am up against it with the upgrade space. I am thinking of getting a DVD recorder and will need to make some changes. The big help would be to get the amp off of dev7 and place the discrete power on some phantom keys. But none are shown on the upgrade functions sheet?
Here is what I have done. If I dont get the link right, it is in diagnosis under 6131_W_ChannelMacros. Again, it is working good for me but would like to learn more and do some fine tuning if needed. Thanks Again.

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2932

Post by **ElizabethD** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:47 pm

Haven't had a chance to read your file yet. But I have a quick suggestion to make it a bit more readable - could you add the DSM upgrade code

Code: Select all

Upgrade Code 0 = 1C 4F (TV/1103)
 FC
End

So long as you can spare 7 bytes, I think it's nicer to have it in than not.
I believe this idea is now included in both extenders' zip files ,not just 1K.
Ref: last post on the first page here .

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:15 am

Very quickly:
(1) DSM: Do what Liz said above. You will then see that the DSMs will have magically moved to the Special Protocol Functions tab and provide an easier-to-read display rather than the Keymove tab.
(2) Shifted number keys for your TV: I understand what you're doing, but it sort of makes no sense. You should leave all of the numbers assigned in your device upgrade (I note you have not defined the numbers in that upgrade at all), and simply delete all of your "shift-number" keymoves. Whenever you want a "digit" function executed, whether directly from the remote, or in a macro or other sequence (like a DSM or LKP), simply use the "shifted-number" button, and it will send the underlying (or hidden or "cloaked" function assigned to that device)
(3) Upgrade space - I don't have time to look closely right now, BUT, since you are not using any of the special protocols and upgrades, you should delete them.:

TV/1101, protocol 1FE = Device Multiplexer
TV/1104, protocol 1FB = Pause
TV/1106, protocol 1F9 = Long/Double Key Press
VCR/1800, protocol 181 = ToadTog
You can delete all of those device and protocol upgrades and make some extra space.

Device combiner is your real upgrade memory hog, and perhaps you need to look at why you're using it. If it's just for duration control, it's conceivable that one of the experts could come up with a custom protocol for your TV that will extend the duration without taking up quite so much memory.

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:54 am

OK, upon a closer look, I have a few questions about things that just "don't look right" to me:

It appears that you have the following device/protocol upgrades installed:
(1) AUD 1580 and 1581: Two devices for your Denon amp, both call on protocol 0047, which is described in the "notes" section as "Device Combiner". 0047 is USUALLY the Denon Combo protocol ;
(2) VCR/DVD 1980: for your Panny DVD player - kind of a standard upgrade;
(3) VCR/DVD 1380: for your JVC VCR - also rather standard;
(4) TV 1080: for your RCA TV, using a "Denon Combo" protocol upgrade (0143) (?) according to your notes;
(5) CBL/SAT 1780 for your DVR 921 (I believe this is a Dish Network machine(?)) using protocol 0144 - described as "RCA combo" (?!)in your notes.

The first thing I wonder about is are your notes correct?
I really doubt you're intent is to use the Denon combo protocol with the RCA TV, nor to use the "RCA Combo w/ duration" protocol with a Dish PVR.
So some clarification of your notes would be helpful.

Further, it just seems intuitively that the Device Combiners would be 0143 and 0144, and the Denon Combo protocol is normally 0047.

STILL further, if you use the "Denon Combo (official)" protocol instead of the "Denon Combo" protocol, you will find that NO protocl upgrade is necessary for your Denon device upgrade!

Second - apparently you have created TWO different Device Combiner PROTOCOL upgrades, and these are used by up to THREE different Device upgrades. As I mentioned in my previous post, Device combiner protocol eats a LOT of memory, and if you add it TWICE, that's REALLY wasteful. You can combine ALL of your desired devices (up to 16 of them) into a SINGLE Device Combiner PROTOCOL upgrade, and have several different DEVICE upgrades use it. The single DC PROTOCOL upgrade will get a bit bigger, but it will still be much smaller than having TWO complete DC PROTOCOL upgrades loaded.

If you want to upload the actual KM (or RM) upgrade files that you used to populate this IR file, it might be easier to sort out what you have actually done, and provide you with a few more concrete recommendations.

Mark Pierson · Post by **Mark Pierson** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:20 am

Capn Trips wrote:(1) AUD 1580 and 1581: Two devices for your Denon amp, both call on protocol 0047, which is described in the "notes" section as "Device Combiner". 0047 is USUALLY the Denon Combo protocol

Protocol 0047 is the code for Denon Combo.

(4) TV 1080: for your RCA TV, using a "Denon Combo" protocol upgrade (0143) (?) according to your notes

Protocol 0143 is the code for RCA Combo (w/Duration).

(5) CBL/SAT 1780 for your DVR 921 (I believe this is a Dish Network machine(?)) using protocol 0144 - described as "RCA combo" (?!)in your notes.

Protocol 0144 is the code for Device Combiner

The first thing I wonder about is are your notes correct?

I would say they're not. The actual protocol code seems to be correct for its intended purpose, but the notes definitely do not match.

Second - apparently you have created TWO different Device Combiner PROTOCOL upgrades, and these are used by up to THREE different Device upgrades.

The only DC upgrade is CBL/SAT:1780. The TV:1080 upgrade is using RCA Combo (w/Duration).

The notes contained on the protocol code entries are incorrect for whatever reason. It appears to me that the upgrades and protocols themselves are correct (the upgrades are based on and calling the proper protocols).

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:51 pm

Dave Sampson wrote: The big help would be to get the amp off of dev7 and place the discrete power on some phantom keys. But none are shown on the upgrade functions sheet?

Phantom keys would NOT show up on the Functions sheet, they show up on the Buttons sheet.
Although there is a set of funtion names listed on the function sheet by default, this list neither required nor limited.
YOU fill in/add/delete the actual function names on the functions sheet, they are not locked in any way. In fact, I usually delete unused functions, just to keep the upgrade clear.

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DSM on 6131

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