New radio shack remote; 15-135

[sidiko]

You'll have to use Java for this one. These new remotes haven't been added to KM yet.

Dave, I have successfully completed my first download on my RS 15-135. From your quote, I understand I need to use the JAVA appl to build upgrades. This is true, right?

Does RM need to be installed in the same directory as the IR program and ALL of the RDFs? I began an installation of RM and a default directory is recommended; however, it is NOT where I put the IR appl and the RDFs. Now, when I run RM, I get a message 'No RDF' Files found.

[kupakai]

Does RM need to be installed in the same directory as the IR program and ALL of the RDFs?

It doesn't have to be. When you first run RM, it will ask where the directory with the RDFs is.

Would there be any advantage to learn my all of my HK remote codes using my RS -135? Or is that crazy? I think vickyg thought it was a good idea when I ran it by her, unless I misunderstood.

That may, in the end, be the least confusing way to do build an upgrade file. You'll be sure about all the functions and the programming since you got it from your device's own remote. But it is a bit tedious. You can teach the functions to the 15-135, download the memory, and you will see under the "Learned Signals" tab, all the functions decoded. You can then use that information to build the upgrade using RM. You can short cut that a bit by starting with an existing upgrade file.

Your info above, is ultra-tech sounding to me being a newbie and all. My HK AV rig is low priority compared to some other equipment I need upgrades for. But, eventually I will tackle it, and have to learn the lingo you used in the above quote.

When you look at the learned signals, you will most likely see under protocol used NEC1 and under the device and subdevice column, 128 and 112 or 130 and 114. What that would mean is, you need to use a protocol that can accept at least two sets of device and subdevice numbers using NEC protocol. That's what NEC 4 Device and 2 Device Combo meant for. When you select NEC 4DEV or 2DEV in Remotemaster, you will see place to enter up to 4 sets of device and subdevice numbers.

The reason I suggest you use NEC 4DEV instead of HK Combo is that in reality it is the same thing, but RM will think it's not. HK Combo is not built in to the remote and so RM will want to add that protocol in the upgrade memory to use, and take up memory space. NEC 4DEV is built in to the remote and RM will not add that to the upgrade, and you will save on the remote's memory space.

[vickyg2003]

Would there be any advantage to learn my all of my HK remote codes using my RS -135? Or is that crazy? I think vickyg thought it was a good idea when I ran it by her, unless I misunderstood.

In my experience its best to have a RM or KM file for every OEM remote you own. You don't need to USE these upgrades, but you want to have a list of all the functions that are on the original remotes, plus any functions that you find by exploring upgrades you find here in the file area. It comes in handy when you need keymoves, and its a great insurance policy, should something happen to your OEM remote.

[sidiko]

kupakai,

Thank you very much! I knew yours was a voice of experience!

I was a little intimadated by all of this. But after getting my feet wet by installing the drivers (JP1.2/3 cable bought from Tommy) and using IR, I have gained a little confidence. By the way, thanks to mdavej for promptly providing the RDF files for this remote (Radio Shack 13-135), shortly after the remote was made available to the public (I think, anyway, thanks mdavej)!

On the other hand, I know I have only tapped 1 or 2% of the power of the tools available here. I have a lot to learn about the concepts and the terminology is still giving me trouble. (Keymoves, Device Specific Macros[I think that was the term, VickyG mentioned to me. Her explanation of its value: To avoid a macro from being global, thus "tying" up a button on the remote-unavailable to any device thereafter].

EDIT: kupakai, vickyg2003, I have some observations and a question or two now. I just used IR to upload to my 2nd RS 12-135. That was sweet! Apart from using mdavej's RDF files, and having NO clue how he wrote the files, I see how IR and the RDFs work together beautifully! I think for me now, another thanks mdavej for the RDFs and move on.

Sounds like I should focus on Remote Master now. vickyg2003 has convinced me I need to archive the codes/signals of my OEM remotes. vickyg2003, THIS MEANS I NEED TO LEARN THE OEM CODES ONTO MY RS 15-135, CORRECT????? kupakai, indirectly, it sounds like you agree, if I understand your last post correctly.

So I need to find a good tutorial or "paper" on RM!?!? Incidently, mdavej says RM is mandatory at this point due to my remote being so new.

I have begun Tommy's JP1 tutorial, which I think will discuss KM, but not RM. I'll probably breeze on through the rest of the tutorial to make sure I am at least familiar with IR. Then concentrate on RM. Then plunder the upgrades, replace my global macros with the Dev Spc macros, and investigate the pause protocol I have heard about from Capn Trips (I think).

vickyg, that record pause and record stop you hooked me up with is sweet. I can press rec pause and que up my Sony DVD recorder, cue up a show on my TIVO, and begin recording simultaneously. Thanks.

[unclemiltie]

In general to build an upgrade with RM you need to do the following:

1: learn a bunch of keys from your OEM remote onto a learning JP1 remote (doesn't matter which one)

2: read those learned signals into RM, remembering which buttons on the JP1 remote you learned which OEM remote button.

3: Transfer (by typing it in) that information into RM, give the "functions" that you have learned a name for RM to use, then assign that function to a button on the target remote

4: repeat until you have all of the buttons learned and transferred to RM. You have to repeat since the learning memory on your remote may not allow you to learn all of the buttons at once.

5: copy the upgrade from RM into IR and upload it into your "target" JP1 remote


Of course, before you do all of this, check to see if there is a built-in code that will work for your device (even if it's just 90% of the buttons, you can get the rest with keymoves) If there is already a code in the remote that works, by all means use it since that will save you upgrade memory on your remote. Next check to see if someone already did an upgrade for your device, or one similar. For example, you'll find that a lot of Samsung TV's use the same code set, so many of the upgrades in the files area for Samsung may work with your Samsung TV.

If those fail, build an upgrade! It's simple once you get started. The only difficult part is the tedious work of learning all of the OEM remote buttons and transcribing them from IR to RM.

[gfb107]

There isn't a true tutorial for RM, but there's always the RM version of JP1 - Just How Easy Is It? and RM's Readme.html

[mdavej]

sidiko,

To reiterate what other's have said, there's a good chance all the device upgrades you need have already been built. So there's really no need to learn every key of all your OEM remotes unless you can't find an existing upgrade. I believe what vicky means is gather all the RM files for all your devices, only building the ones you can't find. Don't just blindly start building upgrades for everything.

Forget about device specific macros for now. That's an extender term, and your remote has no extender. (Could possibly work using a special protocol, but I'm not sure if it would work on the 135). Take baby steps for now, and don't try to learn everything there is to know about JP1 at once. Find an existing upgrade for one of your devices and tweak it in RM until you understand how it works. Then maybe try to build one from scratch.

Thanks for the kudos regarding the RDF file, but I can only take partial credit. I did the easy parts, but other experts did all the hard parts. It was also a learning experience for me, as I'd never done one before.

[vickyg2003]

I believe what vicky means is gather all the RM files for all your devices, only building the ones you can't find. Don't just blindly start building upgrades for everything.

Yes, use this as a learning exercise. Find out how to use pre-existing upgrades. Find out how to create your own. But DO have RM upgrades for every OEM remote you have. Its really annoying to wake up and find the batteries in the OEM have ruptured and THEN go searching for an upgrade, only to find that nothing we have in the upgrade area has arrows that work with YOUR equipment. Or that nobody put up an upgrade that includes some obscure function that you absolutely NEED.

That's how I got into JP1 in the first place. My OEM remote got lost in my move, and we couldn't access the Add, Erase Channel function without the remote. So here we were in Chicago, but had the Detroit channel line up. What a drag. A new OEM remote would have been $78, for our 10 year old TV. Fortunately I stumbled into the forum, and only had to search through the 256 codes to find the function. If the equipment had used 5 digit EFC's, this would be an impossible chore.

Its a good practice to have an upgrade available. I wish I had done this earlier in my JP1 life.

[sidiko]

unclemiltie, qfb107, mdavej, vickyg2003,

Hey! Thanks for all the pointers. I was about to think not too much was shaking on this thread. For real, I appreciate ALL guidance. Sounds like I needed the clarification on vickyg2003's advice. I certainly don't want to reinvent the wheel - and there is no reason to get frustrated over this stuff, possibly where I was headed before your posts.

unclemiltie, you pointed out something very important that I had not considered. The remotes memory. From your comment, I surmise there is some "ROM" type memory, fixed, not available to us JP1 folks. Then, some "EEPROM" type memory which IS AVAILABLE to us. So why duplicate a command in EEPROM which is already present in ROM? I guess I am following your advice already without even realizing it. I am controling my Sony DVD Recorder with my JP1 remote, via a preset device code. Only adding 2 advanced codes (entered without interface cable) for record pause and record stop, thanks to vickyg2003!

[plugh]

A quick reference updated for the 135 is available HERE.

Thanks for the quide (as the owners manual sucks).

FYI - my 15-135 also responds to 992 and 977, which are not in your doc.

I was able to find a description for 992 elsewhere ("Redefining a Device Key") but can't find one for 977 (my remote responds with 4 flashes)

[mdavej]

You're welcome. Rob deserves all the credit. All I did was pilfer from all the great pages he's made and put the commands relevant to the 135 into a table.

It may take 992 but it's meaningless on the 135. Any device key can be any type of device based on the first digit of the device code. So redefining isn't necessary. I have no idea what 977 does.

[Capn Trips]

mdavej,

According to the remote chart you just updated:

977 Clear (more than 980, less than 981)

[mdavej]

Didn't see that handy list way over in the corner. Very nice.

[plugh]

It may take 992 but it's meaningless on the 135. Any device key can be any type of device based on the first digit of the device code. So redefining isn't necessary.

Are you sure about that?

According to the owner's manual, for function 979 ("My System" programming) eligable device groups are defined for each of the function groups, and the device groups vary across function groups.

For example (something I ran into) I can't assign the 'transport keys' from my CBL remote (used for VOD control) to function group 1, because CBL/SAT is not an eligable device. (I've worked around this by assigning the SAME device code to both CBL/SAT and DVR, and then assigned the 'DVR' transport keys to func group 1.)

I have not tested it yet, but I'm *hoping* that 992 will let me tell the remote to treat CBL/SAT as DVR and thus allow the transport group assignment without my kludge. I'll be reworking the remote soon and I'll test this and report back...

[mdavej]

Didn't think about it in the context of My System. You could be on to something. In the context of what device codes are valid for a certain device key, I think 992 is not required. Honestly I've only assigned key groups in IR, not manually, so there is no such restriction in that case. It will be interesting to see what you find out.