Help needed to combine devices

[JCTerrier]

Calling all experts

I need guidance in combining two KM device upgrades. They are NEC1 protocol devices 122 and 126 for the Yamaha RX-V1. They are in a file I uploaded to the Diagnosis area, and available here.

I would prefer to use RM as the Function-to-Key pairing is so easy to establish and change. I would *definitely* prefer not to have to retype all the data.

Which protocol should I use (one of my candidates appears to be unsupported in RM)? How can I paste a table of data into the Functions Section? If I have to use KM, how do I get the the proper rdf file for the extender to display in the pull-down list.

Thanks to whoever will come to my rescue.

Best Regards.
JCT

[Mark Pierson]

Which protocol should I use (one of my candidates appears to be unsupported in RM)?

NEC 2DEV Combo (in both KM and RM)

If I have to use KM, how do I get the the proper rdf file for the extender to display in the pull-down list.

KM doesn't use the RDF's. It only has support for the native remote, but the only things missing are the extender-specific buttons (not normally used in an standard upgrade anyway)

[JCTerrier]

Thanks Mark.

One more thing. Is it possible to copy data from a KM upgrade and paste it into a RM upgrade? I have tried many ways but unsuccessfully. Importing didn't work either.

Please let me know.
Regards.

JCT

[Mark Pierson]

Is it possible to copy data from a KM upgrade and paste it into a RM upgrade? I have tried many ways but unsuccessfully.

I thought it was just a matter of copying the individual columns from KM and pasting them into RM, though I haven't tried it myself in a while.

Importing didn't work either.

RM should be able to open one of the KM files, but not both at the same time. That might be an easier route if you can't get copy & paste to work: open one in RM and manually enter the rest.

One thing I noticed about your 126 file is that numerous functions all have the SAME name (i.e. music dsp program, cinema dsp program). That's never a good idea in either program as it's difficult to determine the specific function (though RM's tool tips help a bit). It also makes it very difficult for others who may try to use your file in the future.

[gfb107]

I was able to open both of your KM files using RM 1.00

Since both upgrades use the NEC1 protocol, but have different devices, I suggest using the NEC1 2DEV protocol.

First, there's a minor change you should make to protocols.ini:
In 1st section [NEC1 2DEV Combo]
add the line

CmdParmInit=PickInitializer(0,N0,N2)

You can just copy'n'paste this line from the 2nd section [NEC1 2DEV Combo]

Launch RM and open the 122 upgrade. ( File -> Open, then change the "Files of type" field to tbe "KeyMapMaster device upgrade files"
Change the remote to be the URC-881x. Change the protocol to be NEC1 2DEV Combo.
Set Device 1 to 122

Go ahead and look at the Functions page. You'll see that all your functions have been preserved, and the Device is correctly set to 122.

Now KM and Load the 126 file.

Switch to the Function panel. Block hilite the name and EFC columns of all the functions, the copy those to the clipboard.
Create a new workbook (File->New in Excel) right click in cell A1 and Paste.
Now enter 0 in cell C1. Replicate the 0 in cell C1 to every cell column C. I do this by dragging the bottom right corner of the cell down.

Now block hilite all 3 columns and copy to the clipboard.

Go back to RM. Switch to the Setup panel. Set Device 2 to 0.
Switch to the Functions panel. Don't click on any function names, just click the New button twice. Scroll all the way down to the bottom of the list and right click in the last row's Name column, select Paste.

Voila.

Now assign the functions to buttons as you see fit.

I've posted the resulting RM device upgrade file at Yamaha 122-126.rmdu

[JCTerrier]

Greg,

Just curious, how do you arrive at 0 for device2.
Also, pasting columns does not always work.
I'll try your file tonight and keep you posted.

Thanks for your efforts
Regards.

JCT

[gfb107]

In your 126 upgrade file, there was nothing entered for Device. According to KM, the default value for Device is 0, so I just used that explicitly.

If you can give me specific instructions for getting pasting to fail, I'll take a look and see if there's a problem. It worked for me just fine.

[The Robman]

In your 126 upgrade file, there was nothing entered for Device. According to KM, the default value for Device is 0, so I just used that explicitly.

I'm guessing that that was a typo when he created the KM file as all the other comments suggest that this device code should be 126.

[JCTerrier]

Rob and Greg

My KM file for dev 126 was never used as a upgrade. I used it only as a worksheet when converting the Hex values from the Yamaha docs to the decimal values I needed. I therefore never had the opportunity to realize that I never entered a device code. And seeing a value of "0" appear there was like black magic. That's why I asked.

Greg
I found that pasting is a hit and miss affair. Generally, a right mouse click may or may not display a contextual menu. Sometimes it pastes contents in the first line only. When pasting several colums, the location was wrong for one or more columns. When pasting a single column, pasting would not continue past a blank line. From my 126 file, I tried to paste the comments, from the location at the top of that list into your combined file; the pasting was correct for all the initial blank lines and the first non blank line but did not continue past that. And of course, when I tried to paste tabular data first copied from KM to Word and then back into KM, everything (i.e. data and tabs) went into the first column.

New Challenge
I have tried loading into IR both an upgrade I created myself to combine devices 122 and 126 and also the file from greg (after entering the proper number for device2), together with the upgrade protocol and neither works. I have analyzed the signal produced and I get NEC1 Device128 Subdevice 112 and of course, the wrong values for EFC and OBC. I have no idea where to look for a solution. I can upload whatever file might hold a clue to this.

Thanks for all this hand-holding.

Regards
JCT

[gfb107]

Greg
I found that pasting is a hit and miss affair. Generally, a right mouse click may or may not display a contextual menu. Sometimes it pastes contents in the first line only. When pasting several colums, the location was wrong for one or more columns. When pasting a single column, pasting would not continue past a blank line. From my 126 file, I tried to paste the comments, from the location at the top of that list into your combined file; the pasting was correct for all the initial blank lines and the first non blank line but did not continue past that. And of course, when I tried to paste tabular data first copied from KM to Word and then back into KM, everything (i.e. data and tabs) went into the first column.

I did find a two bugs in the paste code relating to text that contains blank entries. These will be fixed in the next release.

In terms of multi-column pasting, you as the user have to be careful to make sure that the number and order of columns in the data to be pasted matches the columns displayed when pasting into RM. RM helps a little by allowing you to re-order the columns my dragging the column headers.
So, it you've got KM set up to use OBCs, and you select the first two columns (Name and OBC) to copy'n'paste, you need to drag the OBC column in RM over next to the name column, and then paste into the name column.

So, if you try to simply copy'n'paste the entire Functions tab from KM into RM, that won't work, 'cause RM doesn't have corresponding columns for byte2 and ov.

I've never seen RM fail to display the context menu on any panel panel. Never.

I would guess that Word is converting the tabs to spaces, so that's why pasting from KM to Word to RM doesn't work.

Now, back to getting your upgrade working.

I think the first thing to do is to actually use your 126 file as an upgrade and see if you can get that working.

I've noticed that the default values for sub-device are different between NEC1 and NEC1 2DEV Combo. On NEC1, the default value for sub-device is the value of device. On NEC1 2DEV Combo, the default value for sub-device is (256 - device). It's worth trying setting the sub-device value the same as the device.

[JCTerrier]

Greg,

I have made an upgrade for Dev 126 and it works.

I also tried setting subdevice equal to device. That had no effect whatsoever.

Thanks
JCT

[Mark Pierson]

I've never seen RM fail to display the context menu on any panel panel. Never.

In defense of JCT, I have encountered the following problem with RM during this copy & paste stuff. Keep in mind that on all 3 of my JP1 systems, Java is NOT the quickest steed in the stable.

Upon the initial right-click in RM's Functions tab (trying to paste for the first time), the context menu takes several seconds (30 or more) to appear. During that time, my system (3 different PC's) become unresponsive, and exhibits a tremendous amount of hard disk activity (almost like some Java or other code library is being loaded). Eventually, the context menu does appear and pasting seems to work most of the time (maybe those bugs you mentioned account for the failures). I have noticed, though, that the using the keyboard shortcut for Paste (Ctrl+V) does NOT seem to work at all... the clipboard contents get pasted en-masse into the selected cell).

Take this all with a grain of salt as I've had nothing but trouble with Java on any of my systems (running both Win98 and WinXP). I won't even go into the details of how I can kill Windows each and every time I do I File, Open and navigate through a couple of folders.

[JCTerrier]

I've never seen RM fail to display the context menu on any panel panel. Never.

Greg,

It's one thing to perceive a problem and an entirely different thing to pinpoint the exact circumstances that cause or contribute to a problem. I had to rack my brains to find it but I did find at least one instance where the context menu is never displayed.

First, let's examine how we normally work, using KM as an exemple.

In any cell of KM, a left mouse click selects the cell and a subsequent right mouse click displays the context menu. in fact the cell doesn't need to be selected in advance: any right mouse click anywhere produces a context menu offering copy cut and paste options, among others.

Now moving on to KM

In RM things work differently (but nothing I say here should be seen as a complaint on my part, I know enough of the difficulty of programming); if, for instance, just arriving into say the functions tab, we right click anywhere, the context menu is displayed but nothing can get cut, copied or pasted because nothing gets selected. If on the other hand we first left click on the cell, then a subsequent right click will produce no context menu while the pointer remains in that particular cell (where according to the teachings of KM we desperately want to keep it). When a cell has been selected and displays a blinking text entry cursor and the pointer has changed from Normal Select (the arrow) to Text Select (the upper-case serif i), the context menu can be displayed on a right mouse click only after the pointer has been moved away from the selected cell and is again in the shape of an arrow. And just after leaving KM we tend not to want to do that.

That said, I repeat that I love what RM does
and the things I can do with it.

If only I could now get my NEC combo working.

Keep up the good work, Greg.

Regards
JCT

[gfb107]

Aha, that's the difference. I never left-click in a cell before bringing u p the context menu and pasting.

I added code to RM to bypass the default behavior requiring a double-click on a cell to put it in edit mode. As a result, when you left click in a cell, the cell editor takes control, and it doesn't provide a context-menu.

One of the reasons I did this was because the Windows Look and Feel doesn't provide visual feedback as to which cell is selected.

I'm going to make a test version available that does the following:

1. Fixes the paste bugs
2. Only enables Copy when something is selected.
3. Restores the default double-click to edit behavior.

RemoteMaster.v1.00a.zip

Try it out, and notice how different the interaction is between the Windows and either of the other (Metal or CDE/Motif) look and feel. Let me know if you prefer it.

[Mark Pierson]

Try it out, and notice how different the interaction is between the Windows and either of the other (Metal or CDE/Motif) look and feel. Let me know if you prefer it.

Much better here. All that hard drive churning has gone away and the context menu appears immediately. However, I still can't paste from the keyboard. Ctrl+V doesn't do anything at all, and Shift-Insert places everything in the selected cell. I also tried the 3 Look and Feel options, but they all seem to behave in the same manner.