Pioneer PDP 5016HD decoding problems

klflote · Post by **klflote** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:02 am

jimdunn wrote:Ok, you nearly fooled me.

The timings in the second set of learns looked identical to the first set.

I could see no reason Rob's tweaked protocol wouldn't work...

Until I realised you'd set your RM upgrade as DEVICE 134:SUBDEVICE 0

instead of DEVICE:0 SUBDEVICE 134

I'm pretty confident it will work if you correct that slip up

Doh! It does indeed work if get that right. Sigh...

I also tried the combo upgrade you provided, but as you guessed, it doesn't work with Rob's tweaked protocol. It was the possibility of that sort of problem that led me to think I'd eventually need the device combiner protocol, but hopefully when Rob posts the official upgrade from UEIC it can upgrade both the NEC1 and the combo protocols.

Post by **The Robman** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:47 pm

Here's the official upgrade, it's TV/1457 and it uses the $007E Pioneer protocol.

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5032

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:56 pm

So the question is raised why did it not DECODE as Pioneer?

jimdunn · Post by **jimdunn** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:16 pm

The Robman wrote:Here's the official upgrade, it's TV/1457 and it uses the $007E Pioneer protocol.

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5032

My version of RM (1.81) doesn't like that file at all.

Even if I load it into KM(9.10), change the remote to be a 9960B01, and resave it under a new name, RM doesn't load it properly - ie none of the Functions get populated.

Perhaps you can't edit "Manual settings" upgrades like this one in RM ?

It seems to work fine in KM though.

klflote · Post by **klflote** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:46 pm

The Robman wrote:Here's the official upgrade, it's TV/1457 and it uses the $007E Pioneer protocol.

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5032

Thanks Rob! Unfortunately, that upgrade only partially works. It appears that the functions that were originally Device 170 (Power, Volume, Input) work fine, but none of the functions from Device 0 work (arrow keys, menu keys).

It's actually a DVD upgrade; should that matter? I tried setting the device type to TV in KM before adding the device; I also tried adding the device as DVD and setting the TV device button to DVR in IR, but neither of those worked.

I've uploaded the modified upgrade (after I changed the remote type and remapped some of the buttons) and the IR file to https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5033

Post by **The Robman** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:18 pm

I created the upgrade as a DVD upgrade so I could include the transport functions, so I assume the 5080 is a combo device. The actual upgrade that UEI sent me was a TV upgrade.

The learned signals show a carrier freq of 38kHz, whereas Pioneer uses 40 kHz, so that's why they decoded as NEC rather than Pioneer.

Also, the reason I had to use Manual Settings for this upgrade is because the upgrade that UEI sent me included a protocol upgrade. If I had had the time to compare the assembler code to the various known versions of the $007E executor, I may have found that it matches one of them. Or, I may have found that the executor includes extra code that isn't used for these signals.

Given that some of the functions work, it implies that your TV will work with the 40kHz Pioneer signals, so you could start experimenting with some of the Pioneer MIX protocols.

jimdunn · Post by **jimdunn** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:25 am

Just a quick note that I believe you are now in a position where you could use Device Combiner and Rob's protocol upgrade (bearing his caveat about it being too large in mind) to set your remote up to control this device.

I only mention that because you might want to have a working setup while you experiment further.

Or you might not care about the inefficiencies inherent in this approach as long as it "works your box"

Apologies if you already realised this.

jimdunn · Post by **jimdunn** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:51 am

Here's a Device Combiner Upgrade which I think should work:

(again - I only "auto-assigned" keys, so you'd have to adjust that to your preferences)

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5034

You need to paste in the protocol upgrade from this upgrade AND the tweaked NEC1 protocol upgrade from Rob - so you'll have 2 protocol upgrades in IR to make this work

It'll be wasteful of memory - but it should work until a better solution can be found.

klflote · Post by **klflote** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:18 pm

jimdunn wrote:Here's a Device Combiner Upgrade which I think should work:

(again - I only "auto-assigned" keys, so you'd have to adjust that to your preferences)

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5034

You need to paste in the protocol upgrade from this upgrade AND the tweaked NEC1 protocol upgrade from Rob - so you'll have 2 protocol upgrades in IR to make this work

It'll be wasteful of memory - but it should work until a better solution can be found.

Thanks Jim! I'm travelling again, but I'll try this over the weekend. Before I left, along the similar lines of not worrying about the waste of memory, I actually just set up two devices (TV and Aux) to use NEC1 protocol and loaded Rob's original hacked protocol, and did a few keymoves from aux to tv. Not pretty, but it'll get me by for now.

I also quickly tried the Pioneer MIX protocol. From the Pioneer website I discovered a list of the IR codes, so I based an upgrade on those. The two-byte codes all worked, but the 4-byte codes still all fail. Perhaps there's a device issue: a typical 4-byte code Pioneer gives is AA5B + AF20. It was interesting to me that the AA is device 170 (as I saw before) but that AF is 175 (rather than 0), so maybe I just need to go back to the learned signals and base a MIX protocol from those. Or maybe I missed something else...at any rate, lots for me to look at when I get back.

Thanks again for the upgrade.

jimdunn · Post by **jimdunn** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:41 am

klflote wrote:From the Pioneer website I discovered a list of the IR codes, so I based an upgrade on those. The two-byte codes all worked, but the 4-byte codes still all fail. Perhaps there's a device issue: a typical 4-byte code Pioneer gives is AA5B + AF20. It was interesting to me that the AA is device 170 (as I saw before) but that AF is 175 (rather than 0)

When you have a moment, could you post a link to that info on the Pioneer Website ?

I'd be interested in taking a look at it.

thanks

Jim

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:29 am

jimdunn wrote:When you have a moment, could you post a link to that info on the Pioneer Website ?

They seem to change the URL for that fairly often (unless there is just some crap in the URL parameters that I'm supposed to remove). It is fairly easy to navigate there from the top of their website, selecting support, then custom install, then IR codes.

Here is the URL I got today by doing that
www.pioneerelectronics.com/...

That URL should ask for your email address the first time you use it, then remember you and go to the right place the second time you use it.

klflote wrote:It was interesting to me that the AA is device 170 (as I saw before) but that AF is 175 (rather than 0),

I didn't initially understand what aspect of that was confusing you. I especially didn't get what you meant by "rather than 0". Suddenly I realize you were confusing the second device numbe with the subdevice number.

The subdevice number is still supposed to be zero. The second code is a second pair of device number and OBC number (both published in hex). Some Pioneer remotes then alternate the two signals as long as the button is pressed. Others send three frames of the first followed by repeating the second as long as the button is pressed.

These compound signals are supported by some of the choices for Pioneer protocol in KM or RM.

I still don't understand why the original remote for this sends NEC1 protocol. NEC1 differs in both frequency and repeat rules from Pioneer protocol and I would have no guess how you make a compound signal in NEC1.

jimdunn · Post by **jimdunn** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:38 am

johnsfine wrote:It is fairly easy to navigate there from the top of their website, selecting support, then custom install, then IR codes.

It is fairly easy, isn't it ? - my laziness is exposed again...

johnsfine wrote: That URL should ask for your email address the first time you use it, then remember you and go to the right place the second time you use it.

It did exactly that - thanks a lot for the heads up John - probably saved me a fair bit of time clicking links

jimdunn · Post by **jimdunn** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:51 am

Also, you say:

klflote wrote: also quickly tried the Pioneer MIX protocol. From the Pioneer website I discovered a list of the IR codes, so I based an upgrade on those. The two-byte codes all worked, but the 4-byte codes still all fail.

Can we see that upgrade ?

I'd like to see how you built the "2 byte" and "4 byte" codes in there.

I'm running at about 1% of John's speed here, but I'd still like to follow this.

edited to change 10% to 1%

Jim

jimdunn · Post by **jimdunn** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:29 am

At the risk of turning this thread into an esoteric discussion on protocol decodes -

In reply to:

johnsfine wrote:I didn't remember seeing Pioneer use NEC1 rather than their own protocol. But those learned signals are NEC1.

I have only owned one Pioneer Manufactured device which was a 3 CD Changer/FM Radio Device, and it used NEC1, device 81: no subdevice, (according to DecodeIR - at the time)

I built an upgrade for it about 2 years ago, but because the CD change mechanism was broken I only ever used it as an AMP/VOL control device.

(These things I know because I have the RM file)

When I built the upgrade, I learned from the OEM remote - but all I ever used was VOLUME/POWER/MODE.

The NEC1 signals in my upgrade worked fine for me until I threw the device away about 6 mths ago because I reconfigured my HT, and it was broken.

I probably still have the remote somewhere in the garage. (you never throw those away, do you...)

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:47 am

I've scanned all the messages in this thread and it looks like we've only seen learns for 2 of the buttons that use the 170 device code and neither of them use the 2-code format, so I don't know what the real 2-part signals look like.

However, if the UEI upgrade works for the dev-170 buttons, it should work for the 2-part signals too.

I have re-created the UEI upgrade using the standard Pioneer MIX protocol here:
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5048

I also created an upgrade for the dev 0, sub 134 buttons here:
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5047