Adding 10 devices to an Atlas

Post by **vickyg2003** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:49 am

The Robman wrote:
jimdunn wrote:I'm also pretty sure that they won't - for marketing reasons - I'm scared they woke up to the fact that if you sell $20 remotes that hackers can make behave like $200 remotes - and not only that, in an easy, free, user friendly way - it's going to impact your $200 remote sales.
Actually, the remote market doesn't work like that. You could re-package a $200 remote and put it on the store shelves with a $20 price tag and you would not reduce the number of sales of the $200 remote, because a lot of people assume a remote is only good if you pay a lot for it. That's why UEI is desperate to get into the high-end remote market (because the margins are so much better) but they've really struggled to find the right remote to do it. Back when the $400 Pronto first hit the market, they came up with the $400 "Director" (aka "Mosaic") which died at birth (and deservedly so). Of course, Harmony came along and demonstrated just what was possible with higher priced remotes. UEI's current entry into the CEDIA market is the Xsight, which can be programmed from your PC, but not using JP1.

Actually I think most people don't have a clue about universal remotes. I spent the weekend with some of my husbands friends and they had 6, count them 6 OEM universal remotes that come with their different pieces of equipment and not one of them was programmed with the code to operate multiple equipment!

Do you have ANY idea how hard my husband had to work to keep me under control!

Right now I'm in FL and the building I'm in is going through that Digital conversion and I've been helping so many elderly and not so elderly people set up their equipment, and most of these people have never ever used a universal remote! Of course they don't use their OEM equipment much either. Of the 9 hookups I've done, 3 of the OEM remotes didn't work for various reasons.

Post by **The Robman** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:57 am

Well, for the folks that have no clue, it doesn't matter at what price point you sell them because they won't buy. But now consider the guy who's spending $10k building a nice home theater in his basement, he's not going to cheap-out and buy a $20 remote, he's going to want to spend at least $200 on one, preferably more. Which, of course, I think is totally stupid, and not because of the cost.

If you spend $200 or more on a remote, the chances are very good that it's a touch screen, so no matter how you slice and dice it, to use the remote you're going to have to take your eyes off the screen and look at the remote to find the "button" that you need to press. You might even have to scroll through a menu or two to get to that button. In my mind, this totally defeats the point, you should be able to make the remote an extension of your hand and be able to work it without taking your eyes of that expensive plasma screen playing that expensive Blu-Ray DVD. So I would challenge this HT user to compare one of our $20 JP1 remotes with his expensive Pronto Pro (or whatever) and see which one actually works better.

Post by **vickyg2003** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:31 am

The Robman wrote:Well, for the folks that have no clue, it doesn't matter at what price point you sell them because they won't buy. But now consider the guy who's spending $10k building a nice home theater in his basement, he's not going to cheap-out and buy a $20 remote, he's going to want to spend at least $200 on one, preferably more. Which, of course, I think is totally stupid, and not because of the cost.

While I'm not an A/V enthusiast, I must say that a lot of our friends have the elaborate $$$ home theater setups, but most of them go with the Artful basket of remotes on the coffee table. I've had an "intervention" by my family and am not allowed to even comment on this situation unless the people are only friends of "mine" and not friends of "ours".

If you spend $200 or more on a remote, the chances are very good that it's a touch screen, so no matter how you slice and dice it, to use the remote you're going to have to take your eyes off the screen and look at the remote to find the "button" that you need to press. You might even have to scroll through a menu or two to get to that button.

Give me a hard buttoned remote ANY Day.

But the real kicker here is with that $200 remote you only have ONE!!!! While I may object to the remote-control-basket as the objet d'art, I have them strategically located EVERYWHERE. The last thing I want to do when I sit down, is to find out that I have to get right back up to walk across the room to get a remote. Down here in FL I only have 3 TV's but I have 8 remote controls! (Not counting the box full that I that I use for the hobby part.)

Post by **The Robman** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:08 am

So you have a remote on every coffee table or side table by every chair or sofa? That's an interesting way to approach it. I thought the rest of us were lazy, but that takes it to a whole new level!

Homer Simpson would be proud of you.

Post by **vickyg2003** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:40 am

The Robman wrote:So you have a remote on every coffee table or side table by every chair or sofa? That's an interesting way to approach it.

Well yeah, I have one on my side of the bed, one in the kitchen and one anywhere I'm likely to sit down.

Remember, I'm the FEMALE in the household. I don't have "the chair" and I don't sit there HOLDING the remote the whole time I'm watching TV. I actually turn it on and let it run, even through commercials.

Prior to JP1, I'd be watching a show, a commercial would come on, the MALES in the family would come in, take the remote control, flip over to SPORTS CENTER, and as soon as they found out what they wanted to know, they'd leave the room, and I wouldn't have the remote, and I'd be sitting there watching Sports Center. I'd get up, move to the remote, switch back over to my show, and then the NEXT MALE, would come in and as soon as a commercial would come on, flip over to Sports Center, see what they were looking for, and leave the room, leaving me watching SPORTS CENTER. I'd get up, move to where the remote was, and then the BIG GUY would come home and take control of the TV, turn on SPORTS CENTER, WITH THE REMOTE IN HAND, AND PROMPTLY FALL ASLEEP!!!!! If I'd try to take it, but he'd wake up and claim he'd been watching it.

Its not laziness, it is the WAF (Wife Acceptability Factor) that you guys are always striving for.

jimdunn · Post by **jimdunn** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:50 am

vickyg2003 wrote:Well yeah, I have one on my side of the bed, one in the kitchen and one anywhere I'm likely to sit down.

I do a very similar thing - there's a JP1 remote that "lives" near to any seat (or bed) in each room you might sit in and need one, which controls all the equipment in the room in question.
(3 x 8910 - 4 x Atlas 1055 - 5 x 7562, I think, currently)

No OEM remotes - they are all "archived" - to borrow a lovely term that still makes me laugh.

The only exception is next to SWMBO's seat in the lounge area. She has a JP1 remote (8910) - but she also has the horrible Harmony I made the mistake of letting her try.

And what's worse is she teaches my 6 year old how to do stuff with the Harmony

Good thing is though - Alice likes Daddy's 8910 better - and usually defaults to it.

Post by **vickyg2003** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:05 pm

SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed oh I like that. I wish I could get that title in my household.

xnappo · Post by **xnappo** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:28 pm

The Robman wrote:So you have a remote on every coffee table or side table by every chair or sofa? That's an interesting way to approach it. I thought the rest of us were lazy, but that takes it to a whole new level!

Homer Simpson would be proud of you.

I have three remotes on one sectional couch

There is nothing I hate more than not being able to find a remote, and JP1 remotes are so cheap I just bathe the whole room in remotes.

xnappo

Post by **ElizabethD** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:02 pm

vickyg2003 wrote:Down here in FL I only have 3 TV's but I have 8 remote controls!

that must do wonders to the Power ToadTog states. 4 remotes think the gear is on, the other 4 think the gear is off ...

Hmm, I thought for a while this discussion was OT, then I realized that the Atlas 10device issue might have just been solved. 8 remotes times 5 devices, hurray 50 devices in the house

Post by **vickyg2003** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:17 pm

xnappo wrote:There is nothing I hate more than not being able to find a remote.

Well, nearly equal to that is being forced you using the OEM remote where the button layout is different from one room to the next. I don't have ever use OEM remotes.

Elizabeth wrote:
that must do wonders to the Power ToadTog states. 4 remotes think the gear is on, the other 4 think the gear is off ...

Fortunately all my devices Toggle so no need to worry about Toads.

Post by **The Robman** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:27 pm

jimdunn wrote:No OEM remotes - they are all "archived" - to borrow a lovely term that still makes me laugh.

Did you have that post filed away in your memory for the last 4 years, or have you been scanning through the old posts as a refresher course. I had completely forgotten about that particular thread, though I do remember Mr. Axel quite well. He's already featured in the Hal Of Shame.

jimdunn · Post by **jimdunn** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:14 pm

It stuck in my memory just because it was so funny - I have the type of sense of humour that finds that kind of exchange very amusing.

I just loved the concept of "archiving" a remote and later "breaking it out" - and your query as to how hard it could be to "break out a remote" was splendid.

I guess it's just my slightly surreal sense of humour that causes me to remember snippets like that.

Anyway, the "Hall of Shame" forum WAS my idea, you know... (just kidding...)

Post by **vickyg2003** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:05 am

I didn't read the thread at first, because I "archive" remotes all the time. That is, I learn the OEM remote, take the batteries out keep them in a water proof box, and never see them again

jimdunn · Post by **jimdunn** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:08 am

vickyg2003 wrote: I didn't read the thread at first, because I "archive" remotes all the time. That is, I learn the OEM remote, take the batteries out keep them in a water proof box, and never see them again

Yeah - I do the same thing - I just call it "putting them in a cupboard" and "getting them out" - or, at least, I used to...

From now on it's "archiving" and "breaking out" all the way for me

Are we off-topic yet ?

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:41 am

We've really digressed here, haven't we? In an effort to bring us back to a practical goal, allow me to be presumptious and summarize what I see as the goal.

As I understand the original discussion, the goal was to get "more devices" available in the extended remote, WITHOUT the limitations and restrictions associated with the current multiplexing protocol(s?).

As I see it, in short those shortcomings are:
(1) PITA to actually switch from one multiplexed device to another. Sure it's a button-press, but setting it up in IR is non-intuitive and then you're still using the same "device" button, but using an alternative buttonpress somewhere - either real of within a macro - to switch;
(2) Multiplexed devices must share keymoves.

What we're looking for is a way to if not in reality, create behavior replicating de facto additional "devices" - with dedicated keymoves, unique dedicated device selection capability, etc.

Ultimately, this would replicate the behavior of "phantom" devices that are present naturally in some remotes (6820, 8820, 8910, etc).

Do I have it about right?

I'll tell you, all of this talk about "buckets" leaves my eyes glazed over, but if I can set up my Atlas OCAP 3033 to have seven or eight functional devices, rather than just five (plus the odd multiplexed one) I'd be one happy camper.