Pioneer DVR-RT400 VCR/DVD-R/RW combo unit

davecs · Post by **davecs** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:48 am

Hello again, Rob, you may remember me from a while back, I am "davespagnol" on the Yahoo site.

Our LG Video Recorder gave up the ghost, so we went out and bought a Pioneer DVR-RT400 VCR/DVD-R/RW combi. Probably better to buy separates, but there would be a lack of sockets on our amp.

Anyway, I did a download from the OFA site, and the device which worked was the VCR control 1803, which uses protocol 07E. The problem is there are loads of buttons which are not mapped.

Now the weird thing is that I can set up the URC-7562 to learn, and it learns! Point the thing at the unit and press and it does exactly what it is supposed to. The problem is that when I download it to ir.exe, it does not show any useful information in the Learned Signals tab, in fact all the numbers come up as having the same OBC/EFC even though there are small differences in the list of numbers below. I have already read the stuff about these Pioneer double codes, would an upgrade to ir.exe help at all on this one?

Some time ago I figured that if the button code under devices is 2-bytes, then if you press a button, then MAGIC-efc, the efc is converted to the first HEX byte, and the second assumed to be the one you pressed earlier. Using this method I have found a number of other EFCs, but the problem of course is that the machine needs to be in various states in order for some keys to do anything! And as there are three second bytes used, 00 01 and 03, I could potentially be having 768 stabs at every one!

Anyway there are two things I need to know:

One I already mentioned is there an update to ir.exe that will make a difference? If it will, can I import my old .txt files into it?

Two, is there anyplace I can get the various advanced key data for this particular remote? It doesn't seem to be on this site.

Thanx.

davecs · Post by **davecs** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:15 pm

Hello, again!

I've answered my own question!

I did a search around on the net, and tried a suggestion that it could be worth doing a "learn" with an obstruction when you first press the original remote key, then pulling the obstruction away. This resulted in a readout which shows two signals, one an NEC device 175, and an NEC 171. There was about a 15% success rate so I had to be quite persistent.

Anyway, the 175 line gave the EFC and Hex code for the key, and the 171 line showed whether the second byte in a pair for Protocol 07E would be 01 or 03. C8 > 01 and A8 > 03.

With some controls, there is a different 171 line and you do not get the warning that you may not have got the complete signal. In these cases, you take the EFC/Hex code off this, and the second byte is 00.

I will report the HEX values I found for VCR control 1803:

0 FA01
1 7A01
2 BA01
3 3A01
4 DA01
5 5A01
6 9A01
7 1A01
8 EA01
9 6A01
Up/CH+ B001
Down/CH- 3001
Left/VCR track+ 3901
Right/VCR Track- D901

Power C201
Input select (AV) 8A03 (C903 also works)
Setup Menu F201
DVD Menu 6201
Top Menu D201
Select/Enter 0801
Cancel 5801
Return (Back a stage) D001
Videoplus 9903
Timer Record 6903
Clock/Counter 4803
Play BB00
Stop FB00
Rewind 5B00
FFwd DB00
Rec EB00
Pause 3B00
<Skip/Index 1B00
Skip/Index> 9B00
Slow play 1201
Counter Reset 5201
Dubbing 9303
One Touch Repeat CA03
Zero Return 2003
SP/LP 2903
Commercial Skip 4A03
Display On/Off 3801
Eject VCR C003
Eject DVD 9201
DVD/VCR (toggle) 4003
Audio Select 8201
Zoom A803
Repeat A>B E801
Subtitle 9301
Repeat 0101

There are also some other values:

CH+ 8903
CH- 0903 these do not work as cursors in menus.
Discrete On A201
Discrete Off 2201

I've not been able to test these 100%, but everyone I have tested as worked so far... hope this is of help to someone!

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:37 am

I'm sure it will. Once you've compiled the complete list, I'd like to take a look at it to see what you've found.

davecs · Post by **davecs** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:08 am

The Robman wrote:I'm sure it will. Once you've compiled the complete list, I'd like to take a look at it to see what you've found.

That IS the complete list. There are no more keys on the remote! The fact that I found three that are not on it was in part due to the OFA allocating different codes to CH+/CH-/AV which also worked, and I also found the discrete ON/OFF by accident when I was playing with MAGIC-efc.

Obviously the keynames in my post are the keys as they appear on the original remote and not the OFA6. The VCR Track+/- refer to Tracking, not track number by the way.

My setup at the moment is that my "big" computer (actually it's small, a Shuttle) does not have a printer port, and runs Linux most of the time. I have a laptop which is not on the internet but I run Win98SE on it and that does have a parallel port so I use that for ir.exe etc. If you need it, I will fetch the Protocol and Fixed Bytes data up later.

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:21 pm

Do you have a version of this list that uses OBCs rather than hex?

davecs · Post by **davecs** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:43 pm

No. However, if you take the first two Hex bytes, and enter them into the EFC calculator, you find that if you take the OBC to be "LSB Comp", the 0-9 buttons increment also from 160-169.

Hard to find a pattern elsewhere, mind you, I actually drew a copy of the Pioneer remote but found no OBC pattern except for the Number Keys and the Transport keys (xx00) which ran 32-40, the missing number also being STOP. The others hop about all over the place, so I stopped bothering and didn't keep my notes for OBCs sorry! But if you fancy a look, use "LSB Comp".

Do you want the 007E protocol? I know it's internal on new remotes but I had to download it from OFA. Had a little trouble transferring files between computers.

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:42 pm

I have all the variations of $007E and I know how to convert the hex data, it's just more work than I care to do. I guess it'll be up to the next person who needs this upgrade to go through the motions.

davecs · Post by **davecs** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:48 am

Rob - if you need them that badly, I'll sit and do it when I get home (at work at present). You should know me of old, all I do is get the Hex codes I want and build the Device code by hand to my own spec.

Tell me if what follows is correct it is what I think:

All keys on this remote have a signal corresponding to an NEC code, device number 171. There is a small range of such numbers. In cases where the OBC translates to Hex AB or CB, (and on this device all 171 codes are xB) there is a further signal: NEC code, device number 175. So it is like there are two OBC codes in these cases. Obviously there is the potential for three series of OBC codes otherwise, which doesn't help you to put buttons in any order.

While I'm on OBCs, I might have a little play to see whether there are discrete codes for DVD and VCR mode.

Post by **The Robman** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:36 am

OK, I've created a spreadsheet that gives you the OBC codes, it's in the Diagnosis Area called DVD/1803. The reason I asked you for the OBCs is because you would have found them when you learned the signals.

In order to make a KM upgrade for this, I would need to know what the fixed data is in the DVD/1803 upgrade.

davecs · Post by **davecs** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:24 pm

The fixed bytes are:

2A CB AB 00 00 0A

These are the OBC Codes:

Code: Select all

OBC-1	OBC-2	Hex	Key	Further Explanation	
					
32            FB00    Stop		
33            7B00    Stop		
34            BB00    Play		
35            3B00    Pause		
36            DB00    Ffwd		
37            5B00    Rew		
38            9B00    Index/Skip+		
39            1B00    Index/Skip-		
40            EB00    Record		
42    054     9303    Dubbing	Copy VCR>DVD or DVD>VCR	
42    102     9903    Videoplus		
42    105     6903    Timer Rec		
42    107     2903    SP/LP	SP/EP/LP/XP in DVD	
42    108     C903    Input Sel	On basic OFA setup	
42    110     8903    CH+	Does not operate cursor	
42    111     0903    CH-	Does not operate cursor	
42    172     CA03    10sec Rep	DVD Only replays last 10 sec	
42    173     4A03    CM Skip	Skips ahead 30 sec	
42    174     8A03    Input Sel	On Pioneer unit	
42    234     A803    Zoom		
42    237     4803    Clock/Count	Switch Clock and Counter	
42    251     2003    Zero Return	Return to zero mark on tape	
42    252     C003    Vid Eject		
42    253     4003    DVD/VCR	Toggle between VCR and DVD	
44    054     9301    Subtitle/ATR		
44    099     3901    Trk-/left	Tracking and cursor	
44    100     D901    Trk+/right	Tracking and cursor	
44    127     0101    Repeat	Full tape / disc repeat	
44    160     FA01    0		
44    161     7A01    1		
44    162     BA01    2		
44    163     3A01    3		
44    164     DA01    4		
44    165     5A01    5		
44    166     9A01    6		
44    167     1A01    7		
44    168     EA01    8		
44    169     6A01    9		
44    176     F201    Setup	Main Menu	
44    180     D201    Top/Title Mnu		
44    181     5201    Counter Res	Zero the tape counter	Angle in DVD Mode
44    182     9201    DVD Op/Cl	Open/Close DVD Drawer	
44    183     1201    Slow Play		
44    185     6201    DVD Menu		
44    186     A201    Discrete On		
44    187     2201    Discrete Off		
44    188     C201    Power		
44    190     8201    Audio Select	NICAM, MonoL, MonoR, etc	
44    227     3801    Display		
44    229     5801    Cancel	Used in menus	
44    232     E801    Repeat A-B	
44    239     0801    Enter		
44    242     B001    CH+/up		Channel and cursor
44    243     3001    CH-/down	Channel and cursor	
44    244     D001    Return	Return to previous menu

Hope that's useful!

Post by **The Robman** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:33 pm

davecs wrote:The fixed bytes are: 2A CB AB 00 00 0A

That tells me that dev1=171, dev2=175, cmd1=44 and cmd2=42. Given that there are only 2 command codes, you could get by with just the regular Pioneer MIX protocol, but I think it's a protocol upgrade regardless with the URC-7562.

I have created a regular KM upgrade file for this player.

davecs · Post by **davecs** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:54 am

Rob

I can see the link: 2A CB AB 00 00 0A

2A > 171 dev1
CB > 44 cmd1
AB > 42 cmd2
0A > 175 dev2

There could be cmd3 and cmd4 also.

"Single" burst signals would use device 171 and would have the hex code xx00

Double burst signals would use device 175 for the first, and then cmd 1-4 of device 171 for the second. The hex code would be

xx01 (cmd1); xx03 (cmd2); xx05 (cmd3); xx07 (cmd4).

Obviously on different remotes the device numbers may be different. What would be noticeable to someone trying to get the Hex codes by "learning" would be that many keys appear to have the same Hex code. Only by the partial block method above, could someone get the full data needed to work out the full Hex pairs.

Given that, and if I have got it right, would it be helpful if I make another thread to cover the "learning" of Pioneer MIX2 codes, and how to convert them into HEX pairs in order to program ones own device, with a request for data which people discover? I was using ir.exe v3.07, can the latest version "decipher" the learned signals any better?

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:55 am

davecs wrote:I was using ir.exe v3.07, can the latest version "decipher" the learned signals any better?

I was wondering about the decodes you mentioned earlier, because I thought we did a lot better than that.

Definitely switch to version 6 of IR.EXE and to the newest version of DecodeIr.dll. The decoding is much better.

It still decodes the two parts of a Pioneer signal as two parts rather than as one compound signal (I intend to fix that but there are complications). But that doesn't add too much to the difficulty of understanding the decodes and transfering the results to KM or RM.

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:56 am

Dave, I don't think there's much benefit to doing a comprehensive write up on how to format an upgrade by hand because I think most other JP1ers will just use KM or RM to do it for them (as I did). Plus, KM and RM know about all the different variations of the $007E executor and will format the data appropiately.

Even though Pioneer has made there signals as tricky to handle as possible, I think we've done a pretty reasonable job of setting up KM and RM so that it's not too difficult to setup.

When you look at Pioneer learned signals, you will either see a normal looking learned signal which follows the normal NEC2 rules, or you will see a pair of signals. For the 2-part signals, the OBC of the second part varies based on the button used, whereas the OBC for the first part comes from a limited choice of codes. The "Pioneer MIX 4Cmd" executor allows for up to 4 different OBCs for the 1st part of the signal, the earlier "Pioneer MIX" executor allows for just 2 OBCs for the 1st part (which is all you would need here).

When you enter the data for a function in KM or RM, for 2-part signals the OBC that you enter is the OBC for the 2nd part, you then use the byte2 control to indicate which OBC to use for the 1st part.

As I described in the New $007E "Pioneer MIX" variant thread, the first bit of the byte2 control is a switch which controls whether a 1-part or 2-part signal should be used, the next 2 bits are the index to the 4 part-1 OBCs, so as you correctly stated, the byte2 hex codes work like this...

00 = 1-part signal
01 = 2-part signal using OBC1 (ie, index = 0)
03 = 2-part signal using OBC2 (ie, index = 1)
05 = 2-part signal using OBC3 (ie, index = 2)
07 = 2-part signal using OBC4 (ie, index = 3)

Dev1 is always used for the 1-part signals. For the 2-part signals, dev1 is used for the 1st part (with the limited choice of OBCs) and dev2 is used for the 2nd part (with the variable OBCs).

As far as making DecodeIR do a better job of handling Pioneer signals goes, it's not really possible because DecodeIR only looks at one signal at a time. To be able to make a decision as to which is the best Pioneer executable to use, it would have to be able to look at all of the learned signals at once. Now, it would be great if at some point IR could be enhanced to do just that (probably when IR and RM are eventually merged, if that ever happens). Then, the user could just learn all of the signals to the buttons that they'd like the functions to end up on, download the memory and press the "CREATE UPGRADE" button. IR would then call DecodeIR for each button and once all the decode info has been gathered, it would decide which executor to use and format an upgrade file. So, how wants to write that program, eh???

davecs · Post by **davecs** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:53 am

Sorry, I just meant: Would it be a good idea for me to demonstrate how I got the two-stage codes out of the Pioneer r/c using a learning remote like the URC-7560? You didn't have the data for my particular machine on site, and therefore I think that there will be other units which use Pioneer Mix which have problems.

If people can do that, they can submit the stuff to you for the spreadsheets.

PS re ir.exe 6.0 I have tried running it on my main computer (without the parallel port) and it renders one of my devices incorrectly (showing 2-bit hexcodes instead of one and ignoring the fixed bytes). And what's with the "large" EFC numbers? Can I test them with MAGIC-xxxxx if not what use are they? These are the reasons I have not yet transferred it to the laptop I use for JP1 programming.