Choosing my first JP1 remote

[3FG]

At our house, the Sony TV needs several seconds after powering up before it will accept input commands. But I don't put a pause in the Discrete On macro, and just immediately send the input command, because the TV remembers the last input we were using. And 99% of the time, our next usage requires the same input as when the TV was shut off.

In the rare situation where the TV was shutoff after e.g. watching a DVD, the user presses Discrete On again after a few seconds and the TV will accept it. Actually, we don't use a Discrete On button; instead pressing e.g. the TV device button fires a Discrete On macro that selects the STB input. So if after power up, if the source is incorrect, it is natural for the user to press TV (or DVD or other device) once again. The Power button is used to shut everything off.

[JezW]

4 seconds is a very long pause for a macro, in practice do you think you will be willing to sit there holding the remote while you wait for the macro to finish?

Hmmm. True, but my TV will not accept the source change command until it's started up.

In the rare situation where the TV was shutoff after e.g. watching a DVD, the user presses Discrete On again after a few seconds and the TV will accept it. Actually, we don't use a Discrete On button; instead pressing e.g. the TV device button fires a Discrete On macro that selects the STB input. So if after power up, if the source is incorrect, it is natural for the user to press TV (or DVD or other device) once again. The Power button is used to shut everything off.

This is a more common for me because I change between my PC and Sky box inputs quite regularly. It's interesting that you don't need a pause. I tried without a pause but the commands are sent too quickly and my TV won't pick up the source change whilst it's turning on. Maybe 4 seconds is overkill though.

Few other quick questions guys

1. Is there a multi-quote system on the forum?

2. Currently, I have a macro assigned to the "Shift+TV", or TV2. But this is also a device.

Let's say I want this on the TV button instead, but I also want the TV device active once the macro has completed. Is it correct that I end the macro with "Hold, TV"?

3. As a result of setting a macro on the TV button, would it mean that when I just want to activate the TV device, as opposed to the macro associated with the button, I would need to send "Hold, TV" every time?

4. I've started using the phantom keys and see there are 15 for each device. But global phantom keys can also be assigned by selecting Device <None> in the special functions tab. Would one overrule the other?

[The Robman]

4 seconds is a very long pause for a macro, in practice do you think you will be willing to sit there holding the remote while you wait for the macro to finish?

Hmmm. True, but my TV will not accept the source change command until it's started up.

Then I would suggest not including the input select in the start up macro and instead have separate macros that take care of the input selects which you can invoke once the TV has warmed up.

1. Is there a multi-quote system on the forum?

You mean like I just did?

You can put quotes inside quotes, and the forum will do that for you when you quote a post that has quotes in it, but it's just basic nesting.

[tranx]

A. 2

such as

e.g. DSM:-
Device button: TV
Key: TV
Type: LKP(2)
Function: "[Short]:XShift-AV [Long]:(left empty)--------------[edited: this is now "left empty" instead of "<none>"]

(XShift-AV is Input TV)

Effects: Just pressing the TV device button sets remote mode to TV device (i.e. TV device is active)
plus:-
either
a.) Input Tv, with short press
or
b.) Nothing else, with long press

As usual, if you wanted to change the resulting mode to, say, Device DVD, you would need only need to add e.g. 'DVD' to one or both of the LKP sub-macros

[tranx]

I think it very much depends upon taste and on how your boxes interact so it might be better to spend time trying things out a lot, before reading all this

Our 6440 Extender setup is perhaps not been kept very tidy as it has expanded, but may at least illustrate the management of the two devices which caused some difficulty over setting their inputs.

The Panasonic BTT-370 BluRay/Home theatre box, is used for 'Surround Sound' and for the input from the Android MVV media box, so that depends upon the BluRay. This was necessary because it interferes with the Tv by CEC for on-off if it is connected directly.

The BluRay is power-hungry in standby so it is turned right off by an IR-responsive mains 'Lime' switch, using functions from a mixed BluRay/DMR device. Both partly rely upon CEC settings and some long delays are essential when the BluRay is started, but happily the PVR's do not have or require CEC. Some old boxes are still the best!

It happens that the MXV needs the BluRay to be up and running but, in the macro tab, it might be of interest how they are switched. These two gadgets are controlled by macros on the Combi-buttons, using ComboCancel to avoid any complications with the activity modes which are not in use.

There is also a 'spare' TV device, a set of Favourite channel buttons for the the Humax Foxsat Freesat PVR, for the Humax 9300 Freeview PVR, for the Roberts radio, and for the Tv, which has a hard drive attached for recordings with the list of recordings shown via the Tv's menu button.

The so called 'smart' TV needs excessive juggling with all its menus, as does the BluRay to keep it in a 'known state' for inputs. Luckily the BluRay's menu command does part of that, but otherwise ToadTogs would have had to be involved.

ToadTogs were in use to determine which of the two TV devices had been current, one set for for Freesat and One for Freeview, hence the Two Tv devices. However TV2 and its Favourites became redundant when switching back and forth turned out to confuse the TV's own system for setting recordings with the different EPGs.

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=13474

[mdavej]

Addressing some of the Xsight/Nevo questions:

Macro vs. Activity:

Exactly the same thing in JP1 extender terms. On the 6440 you have to do all the key group assignments that an activity would have using several macro steps. On Nevo, you just pick the assignments on the activity tab, so no macro steps are required. I find this easier to do and easier to understand.

Personal preference:

I prefer Nevo because of the programming simplicity compared to using extenders and because of the LCD. I rarely put more than a page or two of functions on the screen, so I don't have to do a lot of paging.

My experience is the opposite of Graham's. Having had everything on physical buttons for nearly 15 years, I felt as if a huge burden had been lifted when I got a Nevo and no longer had to memorize where all my functions had been hidden. Plus it's much easier for the rest of the family and guests to use. For example, I don't have to tell Grandma that subtitle toggle for Netflix is LKP RED.

Unlike using extenders, most Nevo programming comes down to almost mindlessly picking things from lists. You don't have to know that you must use a slew of key group set commands and macros, design macros that call other macros, create special functions for pauses and delays, write macros for every favorite channel, put macros on unused shifted or xshifted buttons, or use shift cloaking. Nevo is perfect for someone lazy and simple minded like me.

For a novice like yourself, you can already see that while extenders are very powerful, they are very hard to understand and use. We have a couple hundred posts in this thread already, and we've just only gotten through installing the extender (granted there were issues beyond your control). You haven't actually used it besides making a few LKPs or gotten into even more complex features like toadtog or key group mapping. I predict another 30 posts to explain that, because they aren't simple concepts for someone who isn't a programmer.

I'm not trying to talk you out of using the 6440. I really like extenders and what they can do. The level of skill and effort required just doesn't appeal to me anymore. I know exactly what I'm doing, yet it still takes me many, many hours to program an extended remote for the dozen or so devices I have and all the associated activities. I can get nearly the same result from maybe an hour of Nevo programming. This is akin to the difference between low level and high level programming languages. Much more power in the former but at the cost of much more effort and skill required.

[JezW]

4 seconds is a very long pause for a macro, in practice do you think you will be willing to sit there holding the remote while you wait for the macro to finish?

Hmmm. True, but my TV will not accept the source change command until it's started up.

Then I would suggest not including the input select in the start up macro and instead have separate macros that take care of the input selects which you can invoke once the TV has warmed up.

1. Is there a multi-quote system on the forum?

You mean like I just did?

You can put quotes inside quotes, and the forum will do that for you when you quote a post that has quotes in it, but it's just basic nesting.

Ok thanks, I think I'll change it to have a long key press on 1, 2 and 3, for the 3 HDMI inputs then.

In terms of quoting - I know you can quote people who have quoted someone else, I meant if you want to quote people from multiple posts? On some forums you can click a "multi-quote" button on different posts, and then click a final button when you want to reply. It then automatically puts all of the quotes in your reply

[JezW]

A. 2

such as

e.g. DSM:-
Device button: TV
Key: TV
Type: LKP(2)
Function: "[Short]:XShift-AV [Long]:<none>"

(XShift-AV is Input TV)

Effects: Just pressing the TV device button sets remote mode to TV device (i.e. TV device is active)
plus:-
either
a.) Input Tv, with short press
or
b.) Nothing else, with long press

As usual, if you wanted to change the resulting mode to, say, Device DVD, you would need only need to add e.g. 'DVD' to one or both of the LKP sub-macros

Sorry...I'm a bit confused by this

I was asking how to have a macro on a device button but also retain the use of the device button. So the way to do this is by defining a LKP and then entering macros for the LKP short keys and LKP long keys?

LKP(2)...Is the (2) the duration?
Why would you use Xshift? (this has really confused me )
(XShift-AV is Input TV) ?

Are you saying this would result on 3 functions on the one button?

Can you have:

DSM
Device button: TV
Key: TV
Type: LKP(2)
Function: "[Short]:TV [Long]:Macro"

You press TV, it just changes the remote to the TV device. You hold it down and it carries out the macro?

[The Robman]

In terms of quoting - I know you can quote people who have quoted someone else, I meant if you want to quote people from multiple posts? On some forums you can click a "multi-quote" button on different posts, and then click a final button when you want to reply. It then automatically puts all of the quotes in your reply

Ah, I've never heard of that, I have always done that sort of quoting manually, as I assume you did earlier, so you know how to do it. I assume that function would be a mod, so I can look to see if one exists.

[JezW]

Rob, I had a look and can't find the exact forum that I was talking about, but on this other forum, even after clicking the quote button, you are still given the option to quote other people, when you scroll back down through the posts.

http://www.babybmw.net/index.php

[JezW]

Thanks for all the info Tranx

Hi Dave - I completely see what you're saying and I was undecided between the two for a while but in the end decided on the 6440 for the following reasons:

-The extender
-The support from Graham who wrote the extender
-Toadtog as you mentioned
-It's only myself operating the devices, so I don't need to explain the functions to anyone else
-The challenge! Even though it's frustrating at times, I know I'll be able to get the remote exactly how I want it. And if I ever want to change anything I'll know how to in the future.

[tranx]

A. 2

such as

e.g. DSM:-
Device button: TV
Key: TV
Type: LKP(2)
Function: "[Short]:XShift-AV [Long]:<none>"

(XShift-AV is Input TV)

Effects: Just pressing the TV device button sets remote mode to TV device (i.e. TV device is active)
plus:-
either
a.) Input Tv, with short press
or
b.) Nothing else, with long press

As usual, if you wanted to change the resulting mode to, say, Device DVD, you would need only need to add e.g. 'DVD' to one or both of the LKP sub-macros

Sorry...I'm a bit confused by this

I was asking how to have a macro on a device button but also retain the use of the device button. So the way to do this is by defining a LKP and then entering macros for the LKP short keys and LKP long keys?

This is just a working example, because we find it is more convenient that way. Certainly you could have it the other way round as in:-

Can you have:

DSM
Device button: TV
Key: TV
Type: LKP(2)
Function: "[Short]:TV [Long]:Macro"

You press TV, it just changes the remote to the TV device. You hold it down and it carries out the macro?

LKP(2)...Is the (2) the duration?

Yes, we find the default (4) is a bit too long and the duration can be edited.

Why would you use Xshift? (this has really confused me )...

So that InputTV (on XShift-AV) can otherwise be accessed without notionally 'pressing' the device button 'TV'.
It takes a bit of trial and error until a way of doing things becomes clear.
Any spare place would do for Input Tv, while to my mind it is handier and more consistent for each input to be on the equivalent button i.e. in this scheme: XShift-AV of the relevant device.
As usual it is invaluable as early as possible to plan a structure, because in use it saves having to remember so many places where functions could be hiding - and for the most popular things to be the most accessible

Are you saying this would result on 3 functions on the one button?

No but you could have more, with TV, Shift-TV and XShift-TV options, each of which could theoretically lead to more than 3 options by various means. I cannot think what they all are, and perhaps you wouldn't yet want to consider Vickyg2013's interruptible looping for selections in menus, or Toad togs yet.

[JezW]

Thanks Tranx, I'm just playing around with other macros but will look over your response in detail soon.

Quick question -

1. I added two new functions to my TV device - DiscreteOn and DiscreteHDMI1.

I went to the device upgrade editor, functions tab, clicked new (twice), then entered the names as DiscreteOn and DiscreteHDMI1 and entered the OBC codes. Then I went to the buttons tab and assigned them to Phantom1 and Phantom2.

But when I upload and then download from the remote, the functions which I have named, change name to simply Phantom1 and Phantom2. Is this normal? Am I just supposed to save the names of my new functions in the notes in the functions tab?

[JezW]

And another question

I'm trying to setup a macro on the TV device so that when I press the green button, it changes the TV brightness for daytime viewing.

When I get to the brightness setting, to increase it, I need to hold the right button on the remote.

So in the macro I have:

Right
Hold
9
Exit

Is this correct? It doesn't seem to work.

[mathdon]

I went to the device upgrade editor, functions tab, clicked new (twice), then entered the names as DiscreteOn and DiscreteHDMI1 and entered the OBC codes. Then I went to the buttons tab and assigned them to Phantom1 and Phantom2.

But when I upload and then download from the remote, the functions which I have named, change name to simply Phantom1 and Phantom2. Is this normal? Am I just supposed to save the names of my new functions in the notes in the functions tab?

When you download from the remote, RMIR can only show you info stored in the remote. The remote does not store function names - or notes and the same holds for the settings.bin file.

You need to save your setup as a .rmir file, as that DOES store function names, notes, and indeed everything you see on the RMIR displays. A .rmir file does not hold everything that is in a settings.bin file, but when you upload a .rmir file to the remote, it merges the setup data into the existing settings.bin on the remote. Although a .rmir file is usually much smaller than a settings.bin file, you will find that the upload may take even longer, as RMIR needs to download from the remote, do the merge and then upload again. But by using .rmir files, you keep all your custom names and notes.