Troubles with 9960 B01 Extender and Special Protocols

[joedaring]

Hellò all,

I've lost quite some sleep on this already, and I have to resort to expert's help...

I have installed the release extender in my Kameleon 9960 B01 (I've been very happy to see it... thanks Unclemiltie!), and started to experiment with it...

Mixed results here... maybe I'm doing something wrong...

I have loaded the empty IR file, and copied-and-pasted all my previous upgrades from RM (One by one and copying also any protocol where necessary). If I leave everything this way, with all my upgrade devices and protocols loaded in the extender, everything works fine: the extender activates correctly and the remote works as expected for indefinite time.

The problems start when I try to use some of the Special Protocols to improve my remote's useability. I have tried only DSM and LKP so far, but result is the same: the extender activates correctly and works fine until I try to use the key to which the special protocol command is bound: The command isn't working and if I try a few times, the remote crashes in some really nice ways! It may lock-up with all the keys lit, or with all the keys dark, or it may loop infinitely sending a command (don't know if it actually sends commands, but the display segments flash as if it were). Only way to recover is to remove one battery, then re-activate the extender... the remote works again (most of the times) but, as soon as I try to use the Special Protocol key I'm stuck again.

I tried to use different bound keys and different commands, but result is still the same.

I also tried to keep it simple, and loaded just the TV Upgrade in the empty Extender's IR file, then I defined a very simple and, as it seems, straightforward LKP for the Power Key... here is the file, in case somebody wants to look at it:

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=4464

To make it simple, this File contains only the Extender and a Philips TV RC5/RC6 Combo Upgrade, with an LKP defined on the Power Key. Short KeyPress is Discrete ON and Long KeyPress is Discrete OFF. Both these two commands are programmed into the Phantom Keys similarly named.

I'm afraid that there is something wrong I do right from the start, as the issues I'm experiencing are with very basic functions of the extender, ad it is unlikely that these issues creeped unseen out of the beta stage...

FWIW, I'm using IR 7 Beta 3, RM 1.77, latest RDFs and Image files, then the release version of the Extender ($F Byte is 37), and correct RDF (Adv Area is at $600)

Where should I look, guys?

LKP and DSM are really needed to improve my remote performance... hope to get this fixed

Thanks in advance, and have my regards!

Joe

[unclemiltie]

I'll take a look at it tonight

[unclemiltie]

1: have you looked at the Don-Doff commands and do they work if you bind them to a key you can press on the remote? (like M1,M2) If no, please give that a try both in the special protocol def and the keymoves.

2: do your other keymoves for this TV work?


3: I've uploaded a diagnostic version of the extender with the Don/Doff, device, protcol and the LKP in it from your config here:

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=4468



This version will write the contents of the register set to $300 in the EEPROM every time through the LKP protocol. It' flashes the lower LED segment after it writes so you know that it's done. So, once you load up everythign and get the extender running can you

a: activate the extender, push TV, push the power key for a short press then download from the remote, give me the contents of the macro buffer pointer and the top of the macro buffer.

b: activate the extender, push TV, push the power key for a long press, then download from the remote. again, same contents.

The macro pointer is R3E (this will be at $33E) and the macro buffer runs from $3F-$51 ($33F-$351) I only need the top two or three bytes ($4F-$51)

(it is useful to use IR to set a baseline before you read from the remote since then you can see what changed)

[joedaring]

Hi Unclemiltie, and thanks for lookng into this...

I'll try to give you some info tonight, because I'll be travelling for the next couple of days, and won't be able to experiment with the remote 'til friday night...

So, here are my replies to your questions, and I hope I got it right especially for Q#3... I'm not too clever with HEX stuff

1- Yes, the D-on and D-off commands work fine if I simply bind them to keys and aren't used by Special Protocols. Please keep in mind that, probably it's not just the LKP/DKP, as I also set-up a very basic macro on the MUTE key (It was "Mute,Menu,Menu" used to get rid of the crossed speaker icon that stands on my TV screen when it is muted) set up as a DSM for TV, and I had exactly the same fancyful crashes.

2- Yes, all commands in the upgrade work fine both in the non-extended and the extended remote, provided I don't do anything after pasting the upgrades from RM into IR and over the "virgin" extender ir file

3- Gosh! This is going to be a bit tricky... Let's try:

Ok... being not sure of what I had to provide, I prefer to point you to this zipped file:

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=4469

This zip contains your diagnostic IR file, then two more IR files saved from my remote soon after a SKP of the Power Key and a LKP of the Power Key

Anyway, I have to tell you that I didn't see the behavior you described for the remote...

After activating the extender (Two blinks of the lower segments of the IR indicator), I pushed Power for a SKP, and saw the IR indicator segments blinking normally as if the remote was actually sending something, instead of doing the register write thing and signal me with a flash of the lower segments. This happened both for SKP and LKP...

Also, not quite sure, but it seems to me that the $33X area you pointed me to didn't change at all... but, again, I'm not sure I have completely understood what to look for..

Hope this helps, Unclemiltie... and if it doesn't, please bear with me and try to explain me again what to do/look for

Ciao, and THANKS!
Joe

[unclemiltie]

Joe

you found a bug.....


The good news is that the bug is entirely contained in the special protocol and not in the extender itself. Try this; cut and paste this in for the 1F9 protocol in your remote file and see if this solves your problem:

Code: Select all

00 00 01 E4 07 0B E6 0D 07 C6 02 06 00 C6 04 0F 
1A F6 10 6F C4 5A CA 06 CB 05 16 CA 00 C6 CC 00 
2D E8 08 F6 0C 68 E4 2D 60 F0 60 56 60 0F F6 05 
FC 38 2D 56 C3 07 2C 01 76 2D 08 EB 0C F6 32 9B 
FB 29 76 8B 20 6B F6 8B 1A C6 C0 50 00 F6 01 0D 
56 8B 7F E6 F1 FF 6F 76 8B 80 EB 07 76 8B 20 6B 
F5 8B 08 28 C3 2E 38 08 26 C3 03 A2 32 1B 11 87 
43 2D A6 3E 3F 3B 09 82 3E C4 00 C3 A2 32 9B EF 
AF 

The details: It appears that I had two bugs in this special protocol, one that didn't deal well with LDKP that had one-key commands on either side. The other (which I don't think bit you) was a bad test for buffer overflow for the macro buffer that would only impact someone with a very full macro buffer and a very long key sequence.

Anyway, I THINK ,that this will work with extender v0.37, all of my debugging tonight was done with a later version that I was (co-incidentally) planning on releasing today thinking that I was done.


I did not look at the DSM code yet to see if it suffers from the same bug, but since much of that code was cloned, I suspect that DSM suffers from the same problem.

Also, could others who are using this extender test out this version to see if I broke anything? (I did some minimal testing here but I'd like broader testing before I unleash this version)

[joedaring]

Hi Unclemiltie...

let me put this in the correct perspective...

YOU have found the bug! I have merely discovered the effects of that bug!

jokes apart, i'm happy that you have found something to work on... I was afraid of being myself the cause of the extender's malfunctioning with some wrong thing I had been done in my inexperience...

Unfortunately, I won't be able to test anything for the next two days, since I'm travelling, but I'll test the protocol on friday night when I get home...

Will you look into DSM too, or do you need something from me before?

Thanks for your time, and have my regards

Joe

[unclemiltie]

Joe

I've spent the last hour or so verifying that the existing DSM protocol does put macros properly onto the macro buffer, which the remote then processes as regular keys. I've built a number of test DSM's and can't seem to "break" the DSM.

when you get some time to debug, if you can send me an IR with a broken DSM in it, I'd be happy to look at it.


regards

-bill

[joedaring]

Hi Unclemiltie,

I'm back home and had finally a chance to test your corrected LDKP Protocol...

Sorry to report it doesn't work as expected (It does the same things I described above) BUT...

It may be that the problems I'm observing are not caused by the protocol, after all... read on...

I've made some more testing, this time NOT with the TV, but with the DVD (A Pioneer device), with the DVR (A Pioneer Device) and the AUDIO (A Denon Device)... guess what??? They DO WORK!

I've made only minimal testing, defining only a simple SKP=Discrete ON / LKP=Discrete OFF Special Protocol Entry for each of these devices, and this works fine for all of them...

So I moved my TV (Philips RC5/RC6 Combo) on the AUX Key (Don't ask me why... just to try!)... this didn't work and again, after a few tries on the LKP command, the remote crashed.

Then I loaded an old RC6 only Upgrade I had defined before the fix for the RC5/RC6 Combo protocol came... this upgrade has only the standard TV functions, since most of the discretes are RC5 with two different device number.

Well, IT WORKS... ALMOST!

I mean, I didn't get the nasty crashes, but the LKP=DiscreteOFF command works only from time to time, while the SKP works fine every time...

Also, a simple DSM (Shift-Mute,Menu;menu) bound to the MUTE key works fine so, maybe, also this Special Protocol is OK...

Another thing I noticed is that, when I use the TV upgrade containing the RC5/RC6 protocol (and it doesn't work...) even if the TV device key is pressed and its icon is animated, whenever I press a key in the TV mode, along the usual IR Segment flashing I get also some flashes from the SAT/CBL icon... don't know if this matters, but looks to me like a precursor to the remote's crashing (Memory trashed???)

BTW

So, looks like the RC5/RC6 protocol is doing something bad to the extender... Is there anything else I can supply to help with debugging?

Please keep in mind that the files I provided in the Diagnosis Area have the RC5/RC6 Combo TV upgrade already loaded, so they may carry the evil seeds already...

Hope this gives you some more ideas to pursue a fix, Unclemiltie...

I'm here if you need anything...

Thanks again for your time!

Joe

[unclemiltie]

The LDKP and DSM protocols are, in essence, just a fancy macro processor as far as the extender is concerned, in that they make some decisions and then push keys into the macro buffer for the extender to then execute as a macro.

So, can you try to define a macro that has the same key sequence that is making the extender go crazy and let me know what happens?

That way, I can try to isolate the "pushing onto the macro buffer" from the "processing of the macro buffer". I've looked pretty hard at the LKP protocol but only from the standpoint of "is the macro buffer right when it finishes" and not from what happens after that.


Also, I'll PM you later with a custom protocol that writes stuff to EEPROM similar to the one that I gave you earlier) so you can get me some debug info.


Finally, upload an PM me with a pointer to an IR file that causes the remote to crash with the key sequence to make it happen and I'll take a look at it.

-bill


S

[joedaring]

Hi Bill,
Thanks again for looking into this...

The LDKP and DSM protocols are, in essence, just a fancy macro processor as far as the extender is concerned, in that they make some decisions and then push keys into the macro buffer for the extender to then execute as a macro.

So, can you try to define a macro that has the same key sequence that is making the extender go crazy and let me know what happens?

Please, can you elaborate a bit more on this? How can I define a macro simulating the SKP/LKP for Power On/Power Off?

I already tried to define the DSM (Shift-Mute,Menu,Menu) as a normal system-wide macro, and it still doesn't work if I do that in the TV upgrade using the RC5/RC6 Combo Protocol...

If I define the DSM in a TV Upgrade that uses the RC6 only Protocol, the DSM works, and I expect also normal Macros to work.

Seems to me that the RC5/RC6 Combo Protocol is interfering somehow with the Extender (Or the other way around, of course!)... any protocol expert sharing his/her knowledge?

Also, I'll PM you later with a custom protocol that writes stuff to EEPROM similar to the one that I gave you earlier) so you can get me some debug info.

I'm here available for testing... after all there is not a very large user basis using the Kam 9960 B01, and if I can do anything to help troubleshoot this stuff, I'll be happy. Just keep in mind I'm not an advanced user and I may need some details explained to get things done

Finally, upload an PM me with a pointer to an IR file that causes the remote to crash with the key sequence to make it happen and I'll take a look at it.

Bill, this is the IR file I posted before:

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=4464

To make it simple, this File contains only the Extender and a Philips TV RC5/RC6 Combo Upgrade, with an LKP defined on the Power Key. Short KeyPress is Discrete ON and Long KeyPress is Discrete OFF. Both these two commands are programmed into the Phantom Keys similarly named.

I just tried again and, if you load this IR file into your 9960 B01 and start using the Power key for SKP and LKP a few times, I expect your remote will crash after a few tries...

I don't believe you have an RC5/RC6 Combo TV there to test (That would be too much luck!), but I can tell you that even when the Power SKP/LKP SEMS to work, before the remote crashes, the commands don't work at all.

Hope that gives you some other clue to your investigations, Bill, and I look forward to read some more suggestions from you

Thanks again and have a great weekend!

Joe

[unclemiltie]

Joe

I think I found it! Something in that protocol is clobbering a register that I had assumed would remain what it was (although I can't figure out how) This caused the search of the EEPROM for the keymove on the second time through to miss and get the wrong data, that sent the remote haywire. Details below for those interested.

Anyway, give these a try. Unfortunately, this is going to add another 3-bytes to the DSM, ToadTog and LDKP protocols.....

New DSM protocol

Code: Select all

00 00 01 E4 07 0B E6 0C 10 E6 0D 07 C6 02 06 00 
C6 04 0F 1A F6 10 6F C4 5A CA 06 CB 05 16 CA 00 
C6 CC 00 2D E8 08 F6 0C 68 38 08 3A 0B A6 3E 3F 
3B 08 87 43 2C 82 3E C4 3A F3 AF 

new LDKP protocol

Code: Select all

00 00 01 E4 07 0B E6 0C 10 E6 0D 07 C6 02 06 00 
C6 04 0F 1A F6 10 6F C4 5A CA 06 CB 05 16 CA 00 
C6 CC 00 2D E8 08 F6 0C 68 E4 2D 60 F0 60 56 60 
0F F6 05 FC 38 2D 56 C3 07 2C 01 76 2D 08 EB 0C 
F6 32 9B FB 29 76 8B 20 6B F6 8B 1A C6 C0 50 00 
F6 01 0D 56 8B 7F E6 F1 FF 6F 76 8B 80 EB 07 76 
8B 20 6B F5 8B 08 28 C3 2E 38 08 26 C3 03 A2 32 
1B 11 87 43 2D A6 3E 3F 3B 09 82 3E C4 00 C3 A2 
32 9B EF AF 

Please let me know if this works. how this register is getting clobbered still has me completely flumoxed, but I was able to make the Don/Doff LKP work in my remote and not crash the remote. So the only thing left to try is does it turn your TV on and off? (I can't test that here)


regards

-bill

Details for those of you who are interested


This remote doesn't read keymoves like the older remotes did, it only reads 4 bytes into the W-registers so when you get to the protocol I had to re-search the EEPROM and re-read the keymove data into the register buffers in order to process stuff like these special protocols.

I use the ROM search routines to search the EEPROM, which rely on 4 registers to tell it what to look for (key, device, type and a flag to tell it how to look) In my initial debug, I found that two of these registers were always left over from the last search so I didn't reload them.

Something in the combo protocol that joe is using is clobbering one of the ones that I thought was still there, causing the remote to go haywire. Forcing that register back to what it should be seems to have solved the problem. I verified that I had to do this on LDKP and made the same change to ToadTog and DSM since I suspect that those suffered the same issue.

What I don't get is why the first time through this seemed to work, even with this protocol. But the second time through it was a mess. Still scratching my head over that one.

[joedaring]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the corrected DSM & LDKP Protocols...

Had a quick try at them, and I'm happy to report that I have no more crashes using DSM and LDKP!

Also the spurious flash of the Cable/Sat key animation when the Special Protocols were used is gone, so that was also and indication of something going wrong...

Now I'm experiencing a different trouble, always with this RC5/RC6 Combo Protocol TV Upgrade...

My only experiments so far are with the simple SKP=Power ON and LKP=Power OFF set-up, and I won't get into anything more complex until I know for sure things are working.

The problem is that the commands I have in the SKP/LKP don't work consistently each time... actually, they work maybe once in ten times I use them

I'm sure the commands work fine, because the way they are set up allows me to send them also by pressing Shift-Power for PowerON and XShift-Power for PowerOFF and they DO work consistently!

I'm not sure this is a problem of the Extender, the Protocols, the Upgrades or something else, but I'm trying to study a few threads I've found, and I'm afraid I stumbled upon a signal duration problem, since the extender is speeding everything up.

I must also report that the simple DSM I have (Shift-Mute,Menu,Menu) works fine and consistently in this same TV Upgrade, and that ALL other Devices (DVD,DVR,AUDIO) work fine with the same SKP/LKP command set-up as the TV... this RC5/RC& Combo Protocol is proving to be a PIA!

Thanks for your help so far, Bill.. will you check also the ToadTog for the same register trashing effect?

Have my regards and the wishes of a good sunday...

Ciao de Joe

[Capn Trips]

One suggestion: duration.

[vickyg2003]

I have a really difficult time getting RC5 codes to run in a macro. I don't know anything about the rc5/rc6 combo, but I do know that rc5 is a toggling protocol. Each time the key is pressed it sends out different code. Getting the remote in synch with the device can be tricky.

[joedaring]

Hi Capn Trips and Vickyg2003,

Thanks for the comments...

Capn... what duration do you mean? Anything I can set up to my will?

Vicky... this is a whole different view of the issue... mmh toggling protocol this sounds rather omplicated!

I roughly know what that means... a lot of troubles for me!

Anyway... Is this toggling stuff also involved when I run the simple DSM on the same device? Why THAT works fine every time?

Just asking to myself, I don't pretend you to guess and reply without looking at the code...

I'll make a search for RC5 Toggle AND Macros.. let's see what comes out!

Thanks again everybody

Ciao, Joe