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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:18 am Post subject: ToadTog Users Opinions Please |
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I don't use toadtogs because I have muliple remotes for each room, but as I was looking at Macros that Elizabeth wrote and thinking of a solution to the device selection problems that someone posted the other day a solution came to me.
I was thinking of a CASE or SuperTog protocol. It would take 2 or 3 consecutive toadTog bits, evaluate them to a number (0-3 or 0-7) and then do 1 of 7 keys. It would allow you to force those bits to a value.
IF dosomething?
Decode(key0,key1,key2,key3,key4,key5,key6,key7)
ENDIF
IF replace?
Relace toadtog bits with this value
ENDIF
I think that this would be a powerful tool for the JP1 users who need to keep state of their home theater. I don't know if we even have a tool like this. I think it eliminate the complexity of keepin state for the end user.
Opinions please. |
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Capn Trips Expert
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 3990
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: |
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I imagine that such a "SuperTog" could be particularly useful for receivers or monitors (TVs) that do not have discrete input selection, and require one to cycle through a series of input options before hitting the correct one.
Or perhaps in the case of a menu-driven selection in which the starting point of the menu screen is determined by the current mode or state of the piece of equipment.
Having just said I appreciate where such a functionality might be of benefit, I fear that out-of-synch issues, which even in the "cleanest" ToadTog setups occur occasionally, would be exponentially more complex and difficult to recover from. _________________ Beginners - Read this thread first
READ BEFORE POSTING or your post will be DELETED!
Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
DVD/VCR: Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A3 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc: Pioneer CLD-D704.
Amazon Firestick
tape deck: Pioneer CT 1380WR (double cassette deck)
(But I still have to get up for my beer) |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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CapnTrips wrote: | I imagine that such a "SuperTog" could be particularly useful for receivers or monitors (TVs) that do not have discrete input selection, and require one to cycle through a series of input options before hitting the correct one. |
Yep, that's what I was thinking.
CapnTrips wrote: | I fear that out-of-synch issues, which even in the "cleanest" ToadTog setups occur occasionally, would be exponentially more complex and difficult to recover from. |
Yes that's why there would be a do nothing option to give the user a way to resynch the flags with the press of a button.
Last edited by vickyg2003 on Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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unclemiltie Expert
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1795 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: |
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This would be useful to me as I'm currently using two ToadTog's for one device (one for power, one for "output select") and in general, the state of the two are linked via the device button that triggers them both.
however, I do agree with cap'n that sync issies will be exponentially more complex |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, I really wanted to know how desirable something like this would be, but I think jsevinsk beat me to it. I guess I can wait and see how his is received. |
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jsevinsk
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 82 Location: Shrewsbury, MA |
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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vickyg2003 wrote: | Hmm, I really wanted to know how desirable something like this would be, but I think jsevinsk beat me to it. I guess I can wait and see how his is received. |
Here's the idea for mine: (It's the header of the function in the extender I'm working on.)
Code: | ;==============================================================================
;
; Input Select -- Protocol 182, Device VCR 1801
;
; This protocol handles two different types of input selection. The first
; type is for devices that have one button that is used to cycle through all
; the inputs. Pushing the button advances to the next input, and once it
; reaches the last input, it wraps around to the beginning. The second
; type is for devices that have one button to enter an input selection menu,
; two buttons for moving up and down the list, and another button to
; select the input. This protocol can keep track of the input for two devices.
;
; The format of the data bytes is as follows:
;
; 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0
; +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
; R03: | DevSel |MenuMode| SetOnly|||||||||| DesiredInput |
; +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
; R04: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| TotalInputs |
; +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
; R05: | NextKey |
; +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
; R06: | PrevKey |
; +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
; R07: | MenuKey |
; +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
; R08: | EnterKey |
; +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
;
; DevSel -- selects which of the two devices you want to use
; MenuMode -- 0 = one key cycles through inputs, 1 = use menu/select/enter keys
; SetOnly -- 0 = normal mode, 1 = just set input but don't send key codes
; DesiredInput -- the input that you want the device set to
; TotalInputs -- the total number of inputs the device has
; NextKey -- key code for the "next input" key, usually "down arrow" for menu
;
; The following are used only for "menu/select/enter" mode:
; PrevKey -- key code for the "previous input" key, usually "up arrow" for menu
; MenuKey -- key code for entering the device selection menu
; EnterKey -- key code for selecting the input and exiting the menu
;
; Data used:
;
; R_CurrentInput -- Keeps track of the current input for the two devices,
; device 0 in lower nibble, device 1 in upper nibble
;
;==============================================================================
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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So John, yours is a looping protocol.
My idea is quite different.
I thought about a looping but the menu on my TV has very weird looping depending on what state its in, it loops differently. If you're in antenna mode it acts differently than if you choose any other input. So since mine loops differently depending on state, I wanted the JP1 programmer to have the control that I need. |
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jsevinsk
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 82 Location: Shrewsbury, MA |
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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I have another feature that I've been working on (that I mentioned in another thread) that is a state controller, but it's closely tied to device selection. You define DSMs for three phantom keys for each device you have. The first key, called the Activate key, will have all the commands to activate a device, which would involve turning on the power and setting the TV and audio receiver to the correct inputs. The second key, called the DeAcvivate key, would "back it out" of that activity, which would most likely be just turning off the power for that device. A third key, called the ReActivate key, is used when you activate a device that's already active and can be used to re-send the input selection keys or power on key. A new phantom command X_Activate will activate the current temporary device.
The best way to describe this is to give you examples of what it does. Assume the TV device is "active".
This key seqence: X_SAT, X_Activate
Will translate to: X_TV, Deactivate, X_SAT, Activate
A second key sequence of: X_SAT, X_Activate
Will translate to: X_SAT, ReActivate
A third key sequence of: X_DVD, X_Activate
Will translate to: X_SAT, DeActivate, X_DVD, Activate
Because this is closely tied to the device selection meta-keys, it is not very general purpose. However, maybe we can think of a general purpose way to solve all our problems. |
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sfhub
Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 287
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: |
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jsevinsk wrote: | I have another feature that I've been working on (that I mentioned in another thread) that is a state controller, but it's closely tied to device selection. You define DSMs for three phantom keys for each device you have.
...
This key seqence: X_SAT, X_Activate
Will translate to: X_TV, Deactivate, X_SAT, Activate
A second key sequence of: X_SAT, X_Activate
Will translate to: X_SAT, ReActivate
A third key sequence of: X_DVD, X_Activate
Will translate to: X_SAT, DeActivate, X_DVD, Activate
Because this is closely tied to the device selection meta-keys, it is not very general purpose. However, maybe we can think of a general purpose way to solve all our problems. |
This is the way I currently have my remote setup. I just bind the device buttons to macros (global), which call LKPs. Short press selects the device. Long press turns on all the devices needed, then in step two, sets all the inputs, and in step 3, binds all the buttons. Power is bound to a macro (global) that calls an LKP. Short press executes Shift-Power, Long press executes my system shutdown macro that sends discrete off to everything. I didn't find a lot of value in shutting down the VCR if I went from VCR to DVD, but it is doable in my current model also.
Custom handler could probably be more efficient with the memory handling though. |
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ElizabethD Advanced Member
Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 2348
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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I've only been using very simple ToadTogs for power and sound mode. This thread adds complexity, and I think some ideas here fall under, what I would call, composite ToadTogs. So here's a good one from 8910ext readme file in case this example isn't in other readme files:
Quote: | To get a certain desired behavior from my cable tuner, I want to use the
sequence SLEEP, SLEEP, SELECT to turn it off and the sequence SELECT, CH+,
PREV to turn it on. Also, if the user presses CH+ when the cable tuner is
off I want to send SELECT, CH+, PREV, CH+ (which also turns it on); But if
it was already on I just want to send CH+. On the power key I put
03 22 22 35 35 86 23
That means use toggle 0 and 3 codes are in the ON sequence (22 22 35 = SLEEP,
SLEEP, SELECT), the off sequence is 35 86 23 = SELECT, shift-CH+, PREV (I
shift-cloaked the CH+ so the setup code's CH+ will be used, not the following
KeyMove). On the CH+ key I put
81 86 03 86
"8" = 0+8 meaning use toggle 0. "1" means we send 1 keycode (86 = shift-CH+)
if the device was already on. If the device was previously off, send 03
(which is power, which is the nested ToadTog command described above) followed
by 86. Note that I added 8 to the left digit to say this command should not
change the toggle. That may be confusing because this command is always
leaving the device on. The detail to understand is that nested commands are
put in the extender's pending buffer and not really executed until this
command thinks it's done. When the previous state was off, this command must
leave it off, so the 03 command will turn it on. If that is too confusing, I
could have used
89 86 35 86 23 86
That means to send only 86 if it was previously on, but send 35 86 23 86 if
it was off (exactly what the 03 86 in the other version actually sends) and
I added 8 to both digits so it is clear that the toggle is being turned on
unconditionally. |
Slight translation into current IR GUI:
Power key - toggle 0, no change of toggle, 3 keys in on sequence
On sequence:Sleep,Sleep,Select
Off sequence: Select, shift-CH+,Prev
hex: Control=03, keys: 22 22 35 35 86 23
CH+ key - toggle 0, no change of toggle, 1 key in the ON sequence
AlreadyON: shift-CH+, AlreadyOFF: Power,shift-CH+
hex: Control=81, keys: 86 03 86
Second version - toggle 0, force toggle on, 1 key in the ON sequence
AlreadyON:shift-CH+
AlreadyOFF:Select,shift-CH+,Prev,shift-CH+
hex: Control=89, keys: 86 35 86 23 86
Have fun! _________________ Liz
Tweeking 8910, HTPro/9811, C7-7800, 6131o, 6131n, AtlasOCAP-1056B01, RCA-RCRP05B and enjoying the ride |
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