Multiple protocol/OBC dilemma

[Its_Kemosabe]

I am the process of upgrading my RS 2116. I have been successful in using the learning capability of the 2116 to determine the OBC's for each of my two Tivo remotes. Each button from each of the original TiVo remotes gave me the same protocol for each remote and one OBC for each button that was "learned".

When attempting to repeat this process with the remotes from my Onkyo receiver and Pioneer widescreen, several of the buttons that were "learned" into the 2116 had different protocols, multiple OBC's and different device numbers. Several of the Onkyo buttons had a NEC1 protocol and several other Onkyo buttons had a NEC2 protocol as well as a different sub-device number. Several of the buttons on the Pioneer had two different device and OBC numbers for the same button.

Any guidance and direction on my next steps would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks ......................... Herb

[jon_armstrong]

You may be looking at two different issues. IIRC, Onkyo uses the NEC1, but the NEC1 and NEC2 are similar and I would use the predominant one in your learns. If it doesn't work well try the other (they will most likely work using either).

Pioneer frequently uses two different commands in sequence. Usually the first Device/OBC is used for a number of commands and the second is different for each command. There is an explanation in the Protocols readme in KM Master on how to use the various Pioneer protocol variations.

[gfb107]

Maybe you have a reason for going through the effort of learning and creating your own upgrades for each of your devices, but be aware that there are existing device upgrades for all TiVos, as well as a number of Onkyo receivers and Pioneer TVs.

TiVo upgrades
Onkyou receiver upgrades.
Pioneer TV Upgrades.

[johnsfine]

I think Onkyo does typically mix different subdevice numbers AND mix NEC1 with NEC2 is the same device.

I know there is a parm value in NEC to allow mixing NEC1 and NEC2. There are also combo versions of NEC to allow mixing subdevices. I don't recall whether there is a combo protocol for both those mixtures at once.

The consequences of getting NEC1 vs. NEC2 wrong may be very subtle. On short presses there should be no difference at all. For long presses the difference may be serious for some devices and some functions. But a lot of people seem to be satisfied with both JP1 and Pronto configs that get NEC1 vs. NEC2 wrong for a lot of functions, so maybe the consequences are trivial.

If you aren't short of KeyMove memory, it's probably easiest to make one main upgrade with whatever subdevice and NEC1 vs NEC2 is most common, then patch the rest with KeyMoves using either built-in setup codes or dummy upgrades.

Another choice is to put everything together with the Device Combiner protocol.

Of course you should first look at previous Onkyo upgrades to see if any of them dealt reasonably with that two dimensional combo issue (or to see more evidence that you don't really need to deal with it).

[greenough1]

for my onkyo 575x, I used an existing device upgrade and it worked perfectly in my 8811. KM reports that is uses a NEC1 combo. It also requires a protocol to do the upgrade. Check the device upgrades and see if there's one close to what you need.

Best,
jeff

[The Robman]

I know there is a parm value in NEC to allow mixing NEC1 and NEC2.

Yes indeed, the NEC codes are explained here. To make the "repeatable " buttons (ie, VOL+/-, CH+/-, REW and FWD) use NEC2 and all the other buttons use NEC1, bit3 of the parm needs to be set.

So, for single device codes, change the parm from "00" to "08" and for 2-device code signals, change it from "20" to "28".

The consequences of getting NEC1 vs. NEC2 wrong may be very subtle.

If the device is expecting NEC2 and you use NEC1, the problems are indeed minor, basically repeatable buttons won't repeat. But if the device is expecting NEC1 and you send NEC2 the problems are more major. Basically the device thinks that you are pressing the button repeatedly in VERY quick succession and in all likelyhood, the device will lock up and probably need to be unpluged so it can reset itself.