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Very strange problems with ReplayTV and Amp... (RS 15-2117)

 
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sofakng



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:37 pm    Post subject: Very strange problems with ReplayTV and Amp... (RS 15-2117) Reply with quote

I've only had my remote for a couple of days now (about 3) but I've learned JP1 pretty quickly and I've even installed an extender (15-2117 extender 2).

Last night after all my programming (with the 15-2117 extender 2) the remote was working GREAT! But tonight, all of a sudden, my ReplayTV doesn't seem to be responding very well.

I have two remotes -- my original ReplayTV remote and my 15-2117. I've reprogrammed BOTH of them with the ReplayTV (advanced) protocol. They were both working GREAT last night but tonight, I have to hold down the buttons for 5 SECONDS OR MORE to even get a response from the ReplayTV box. Nothing has changed between last night and tonight. I've tried unplugging my RF receiver for the 15-2117 but that doesn't help...

My second problem is with my Onkyo TX-DS575 receiver. This problem has been around since day one though so it's probably not related to my other problem. The problem with the receiver is that sometimes when I hold the volume controls (vol+ or vol-) the receiver keeps increasing (or decreasing) the volume for as long as the button is held. However, sometimes the receiver will just STOP acknowledging the command even though the button is still being held down. What I have to do is release the button and then re-press it to continue adjusting the volume.

Anybody have any idea about these problems?

Thanks in advance.
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Very strange problems with ReplayTV and Amp... (RS 15-21 Reply with quote

sofakng wrote:
sometimes the receiver will just STOP acknowledging the command even though the button is still being held down. What I have to do is release the button and then re-press it to continue adjusting the volume.


I assume you're using the NEC1 protocol. That protocol has the command only at the beginning, then it has a signal repeating as long as the button is held that only gives the fact that some button is held, not which button.

If the device misses the beginning of a button press and suddenly starts seeing the button held signal, it must ignore that since it doesn't know what button is held.

As you described, it does see the beginning then some button held signals, but then some battery problems or aiming problem or external interference makes it miss part of the button held signal. When it starts seeing the button held signal again after that miss, it has to assume it is a new button and it missed the beginning. It can't assume it is the previous button and it missed the middle.

IIRC, some Onkyo remotes mix NEC2 and NEC1, using NEC2 for signals such as VOL where holding the button should have the same effect as rapid multiple presses. The relationship between NEC1 and NEC2 means that holding a button in NEC2 sends the same signal as rapid multiple presses in NEC1.

The JP1 remote has the built-in ability for a single setup code to mix NEC2 and NEC1 and semi-intelegently decide which keys send which. I don't know if any of the JP1 gurus know the details of that without some research, and I think it doesn't mix well with the fact that Onkyo also requires combining two subdevices.

It may be simpler to create a seperate NEC2 upgrade for the keys that work better in NEC2 and use KeyMoves to define them into the right device mode.

Otherwise, you might want to try to determine whether batteries, aiming, or interference is causing the missed signal in the middle, and see if that can be fixed.
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sofakng



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure I'm using the NEC1/NEC2 Combo protocol... I forgot if the vol+ and vol- are using NEC1 or NEC2 though. I'll definitely check that when I go home. However, if I create a new device upgrade for just the volume keys, I'll have to assign it to logical device to be able to keymove then, right?

Also, any idea about my ReplayTV problems?

Thanks for the help! I really, really appriciate it.
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pgk



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 113
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'll have to assign it to logical device to be able to keymove then, right?



You can keymove without having to assign it to a logical device.
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sofakng wrote:
I'm pretty sure I'm using the NEC1/NEC2 Combo protocol... I forgot if the vol+ and vol- are using NEC1 or NEC2 though.


I don't think any protocol lets you specify NEC1/NEC2 for each function (other than indirectly using the device combiner protocol on top of other protocols). I don't know whether the NEC Combo allows a PARM value to specify mixing NEC1 with NEC2. If it does, it's not going to be very clear in KM, and it certainly won't tell you which keys are NEC1 vs. NEC2.

Anyway the symptoms you described wouldn't happen with NEC2 unless it was due to some very strange condition of the batteries (one of the four batteries being reverse charged MIGHT do it). But those symptoms are very ordinary for NEC1, so I can be nearly certain it's NEC1.

sofakng wrote:

if I create a new device upgrade for just the volume keys, I'll have to assign it to logical device to be able to keymove then, right?


Wrong. The source device mode used while defing a KeyMove and/or displayed for existing KeyMoves is just a convenience for specifying the Setup code (type and number). It isn't necessary.


sofakng wrote:

Also, any idea about my ReplayTV problems?


Nothing likely leaps to mind.
Dead batteries in both remotes?
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pgk



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 113
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoops looks like I submitted rather than just cancelling my original response.

You can keymove without having to assign it to a logical device, the keymove screen allows you to type in any device code as well as selecting from the defined devices.

An alternative way which maybe appropriate for your setup, if you have spare logical devices, would be to define a custom device in KM covering the volume keys for your receiver (Vol+, Vol-, Mute for the 2117 extender 2) assign this to a logical device. You can then select the logical device and use SET_VOL_KEYS to activate them for a given "main" device without fiddling around with keymoves. (Or indeed if you only ever use those keys for volume set it as the default VOL device on the general tab in IR and remove the SET_VOL_KEYS from elsewhere.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pgk wrote:
Vol+, Vol-, Mute


But I'm pretty sure Mute must remain NEC1 when Vol+ and Vol are changed to NEC2, so another device mode isn't worth the trouble.
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sofakng



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the great responses on NEC1/NEC2! I'll create a new device upgrade (using NEC2) and then put KeyMoves on my DEV_AUD VOL+ and VOL-.

johnsfine wrote:
Nothing likely leaps to mind.
Dead batteries in both remotes?


Actually it's brand new batteries in both remotes... The RS 15-2117 is 4 days old and I purchased brand new (radio shack brand) batteries at the same time I purchased the remote.

The ReplayTV remote is using rechargable battieries (name brand, Energizer) that have been fulled charged and work *perfectly* with all my other devices.

The only common thing between the two remotes is that I'm using the ReplayTV (advanced) protocol instead of the regular/official one...

Like I said though, both remotes worked fine a few days ago... but now they both have the same weird condition... I don't understand.

Should I try going back to the ReplayTV (official) protocol? Any other suggestions?
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Mark Pierson
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
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Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
I don't think any protocol lets you specify NEC1/NEC2 for each function (other than indirectly using the device combiner protocol on top of other protocols). I don't know whether the NEC Combo allows a PARM value to specify mixing NEC1 with NEC2. If it does, it's not going to be very clear in KM, and it certainly won't tell you which keys are NEC1 vs. NEC2.

In KM, the NEC Combo protocols ($0140 hacked versions) let you specify a single Parm to denote the style, but can't be used to change (mix) individual functions.

However, the NEC 2DEV Combo ($011A) allows you to specify 2 pairs of device and sub-device numbers and a default NEC-style (1, 2, x1, x2) on the Setup sheet. Each individual function can then specify (override) its own NEC-style if so desired so that you can tell which keys are 1, 2, x1, or x2.
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MPSAN



Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 77
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which rptv? I have the 5040 and use ext2 for the Replay device code 0614. Has discrete power, too.

That is Replay TV ext2, in addition to 2117 extender 2.
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sofakng



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the same unit as mine (RTV 5040)...

Today my remote is acting even stranger... (the 15-2117 remote)... the cable box is now barely responding to commands....

Same as my replaytv, I have to hold down a button for a LOONG time (5 or 6 seconds) to have my cable box respond to the signal. I've unplugged my RF unit and I'm standing about 5 feet from the TV.

Do I possibly have a defective remote or something?
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sfhub



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 287

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use the base (unextended) remote with no keymoves, macros, etc.
and VCR_0616 for Replay.

See if that makes any difference. If it is still having problems and
you've replaced the battery, your remote may be having problems.

Maybe the IR transmitters are misalligned or some other problem.

Also make sure your IR blaster is plugged in all the way on the Replay
or strange things could happen.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
I don't think any protocol lets you specify NEC1/NEC2 for each function (other than indirectly using the device combiner protocol on top of other protocols).

Actually, the $005A protocol does have a mode where you can specify NEC1 for all buttons except the repeatable buttons (ie, VOL+/-, CH+/-, REW and FFWD) which would use NEC2. For this to occur bit3 needs to be set. See The $005A NEC protocol explained for more info.

As for the ReplayTV problem, switching to the official protocol won't make a difference as the signals sent are exactly the same. The difference between the advanced and official versions is that the advanced lets you do mini-macros for things like "3 minute skip". Does your original Replay remote act the same way? If so, the problem probably lies in your Replay box itself. In this case you should try cold booting it (ie, pull the plug from the wall).
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