New RS 19-2117 Still having troubles

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cseyer
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:12 pm

New RS 19-2117 Still having troubles

Post by cseyer »

Got my 2117 and have been working on getting it setup. I have a zillion questions but am trying to learn everything. I am using a JP1 cable the JP1 program and Remote Master. I have downloaded the baseline so I am not afraid to play, I am assuming anything I break can be fixed by uploading the baseline?

All of my equipment is sony except for the motorola cable box.

Questions:

1. I used the on remote setup to get the basic functions working. However there are some issues I need to fix, for example the Receiver programmed under the "Audio" button doesnt have all the correct input selects for my particular receiver. So I know the protocol Parameter device code and the command code from the sony discrete site. How do I program just these buttons on the "Audio" buttons? I have been able to make a new upgrade on the "Sat" button but dont know how to move or program over the preset device code on the "audio" button where I really want them.

2. Am I limited to two protocol parameters for each device button? When I create an upgrade is the device code relevant if I know the sony protocol and command code, the device code didnt seem to affect anything?

3. Macros, I do not understand. What I would like to do is have a macro on the device keys similiar to another sony remote I have that when you hold the device button it activates a macro to tune the TV/REceiver, and powers on all the correct devices. Is this possible?
:?
cseyer
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Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:12 pm

Another Remote master question

Post by cseyer »

One more question:

In remote master there are available buttons listed that are not physically on the remote under the "buttons" tab. For example Discrete on*, Discrete off*, Phantom 1* , etc. What do the * mean? And if I put a function on these buttons how do I activate them. I am guessing here but are these just memory spots for possible macro programming?
jon_armstrong
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Re: New RS 19-2117 Still having troubles

Post by jon_armstrong »

cseyer wrote:Got my 2117 and have been working on getting it setup. I have a zillion questions but am trying to learn everything. I am using a JP1 cable the JP1 program and Remote Master. I have downloaded the baseline so I am not afraid to play, I am assuming anything I break can be fixed by uploading the baseline?
Yes you an always go back to that.
Questions:
1. I used the on remote setup to get the basic functions working. However there are some issues I need to fix, for example the Receiver programmed under the "Audio" button doesnt have all the correct input selects for my particular receiver. So I know the protocol Parameter device code and the command code from the sony discrete site. How do I program just these buttons on the "Audio" buttons? I have been able to make a new upgrade on the "Sat" button but dont know how to move or program over the preset device code on the "audio" button where I really want them.
As you probably know, the input buttons for receivers are on the numerals in the built in setup codes. So you can use key moves or just create a new device upgrade that puts everything where you want.
2. Am I limited to two protocol parameters for each device button?
For the Sony12/15 protocol you can have two device numbers
When I create an upgrade is the device code relevant if I know the sony protocol and command code, the device code didnt seem to affect anything?
Without seeing what you did, it would be hard to say why that happened but it shouldn't. If you transmitted the 3 digit EFC's using a built in setup code, then that setup code defines the device(s). But if you are talking about creating a device upgrade with RM, then the Protocol/device number is what defines the equipment that the command is for.

Sony uses multiple device numbers but each type of equipment has a main device number. For Sony TV's it's device=1. For Sony receivers it's 16. Command (or OBC) 46 is discrete power on. If the device didn't mater, if you sent command 46 then all your Sony gear would turn on. So Sony12:1:46 turns the TV on Sony12:16:46 turns the receiver on.

There is a Sony universal off command Sony15:4:55 that would turn off most Sony gear.
3. Macros, I do not understand. What I would like to do is have a macro on the device keys similiar to another sony remote I have that when you hold the device button it activates a macro to tune the TV/REceiver, and powers on all the correct devices. Is this possible?
Yes, but get all the commands figured out first. Macros are just simply putting down the buttons in the order that you would push them. Sony has discrete commands for just about everything. That makes macros extremely reliable.

Also to answer you second post, phantom keys are keys that can be used in macros, but have no physical key on the remote. They are very useful. I have a Sony HD front projector. I don't want anyone accidentally turning it on or off because each cycle diminishes bulb life. So all commands are on phantom keys and are embedded in macros.
-Jon
cseyer
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:12 pm

Re: New RS 19-2117 Still having troubles

Post by cseyer »

As you probably know, the input buttons for receivers are on the numerals in the built in setup codes. So you can use key moves or just create a new device upgrade that puts everything where you want.
Yes that sounds like what I want to do, create my own upgrade for the receiver and put everything in the correct spot.
For the Sony 12/15 protocol you can have two device numbers

Okay this I understand, there are only two blocks to enter possible protocol parameters in Remote master. Is there anyway around this? My receiver has functions under at least three protocol parameters?
Without seeing what you did, it would be hard to say why that happened but it shouldn't. If you transmitted the 3 digit EFC's using a built in setup code, then that setup code defines the device(s). But if you are talking about creating a device upgrade with RM, then the Protocol/device number is what defines the equipment that the command is for.


Right the protocol/device number defines everything so the "setup code" in remote master is somewhat pointless??
Sony uses multiple device numbers but each type of equipment has a main device number. For Sony TV's it's device=1. For Sony receivers it's 16. Command (or OBC) 46 is discrete power on. If the device didn't mater, if you sent command 46 then all your Sony gear would turn on. So Sony12:1:46 turns the TV on Sony12:16:46 turns the receiver on.

There is a Sony universal off command Sony15:4:55 that would turn off most Sony gear.


Okay this is very helpful. I want the "power" button to be a power off macro but it sounds like 15:4:55 will turn everything off.

Another question, I have used Sony 12/15 protocol for everything thus far, in what situations might I use a different sony protocol ie Sony 20 or DSP??
Yes, but get all the commands figured out first. Macros are just simply putting down the buttons in the order that you would push them. Sony has discrete commands for just about everything. That makes macros extremely reliable.

Also to answer you second post, phantom keys are keys that can be used in macros, but have no physical key on the remote. They are very useful. I have a Sony HD front projector. I don't want anyone accidentally turning it on or off because each cycle diminishes bulb life. So all commands are on phantom keys and are embedded in macros.
Fair enough, this is an important feature for my wife to like this remote. She (and I) really like being able to set everything to the correct inputs automatically between TV, HD Cable, and DVD. After some more reading it sounds like to use a device key for a macro I will have to use an "extender". This of course brings up another zillion questions. Can someone just confirm that it is possible to program a device button to hold down and activate a macro?

Thanks!! :)
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Re: New RS 19-2117 Still having troubles

Post by jon_armstrong »

For the Sony 12/15 protocol you can have two device numbers

Okay this I understand, there are only two blocks to enter possible protocol parameters in Remote master. Is there anyway around this? My receiver has functions under at least three protocol parameters?


Usually this is just a trade off. I think most IR commands fit the 90/10 rule. Ten percent of the buttons are used 90 percent of the time. Most commands are in Sony12:16. I haven't used the tuner function on my receiver in many years. So I don't need Sony12:13. An OFA remote only has so many buttons and you only have so much memory. You can put many commands on shifted buttons, but then you have to remember what they are. Each shifted key takes a key move (minimum 5 bytes per keymove) and on and on.

So here are some alternatives:

1. Use the Sony combo protocol. Each key can be a different Sony12/15 device. This takes one additional byte per assigned button in an upgrade.

2. Do a second device upgrade that gives two more devices and then key move the few commands to the button you want on the Audio devices. Keep in mind a device upgrade does not have to be assigned to a physical device button to be useful.

Keep in mind you cannot directly assign a phantom key or shifted key (and a number of other keys depending on device type) using a device upgrade. The device upgrades are now smart enough to automate the keymove part but a directly assigned button is one byte per additional button a key moved button is 5 bytes.

Without seeing what you did, it would be hard to say why that happened but it shouldn't. If you transmitted the 3 digit EFC's using a built in setup code, then that setup code defines the device(s). But if you are talking about creating a device upgrade with RM, then the Protocol/device number is what defines the equipment that the command is for.


Right the protocol/device number defines everything so the "setup code" in remote master is somewhat pointless??
Keep in mind the setup code is the four digit number like TV/0000. Those are arbitrary. A device code is Sony12:16. Those are not.

If you set your setup code in a device upgrade for TV/0000 then unless it was made for a Sony TV, the Sony TV would quit working. Other than using a setup code that you need from the built in library, pick anything you like under 2048. TV/1066 is different than CD/1066. Think of all those useless dates from history class :-)

There is a Sony universal off command Sony15:4:55 that would turn off most Sony gear.


Okay this is very helpful. I want the "power" button to be a power off macro but it sounds like 15:4:55 will turn everything off.
Make sure in your RM upgrade you check the tick box to force Sony15 with device 4. Otherwise it (and Sony) sets the Protocol (Sony12, 15, or 20) by what the device number is. Those Sony protocols have 7-bit OBC's; hence 5, 8, and 13 bit device numbers. So with the exception of device 4, device numbers under 32 are Sony12; under 256, are Sony15 and anything with a period separating two numerals like 26.73 is Sony20.
Another question, I have used Sony 12/15 protocol for everything thus far, in what situations might I use a different Sony protocol ie Sony 20 or DSP??

Hopefully, the first part is answered. The DSP protocol is used for certain DSP functions. They are complex and take up a lot of memory. The support of DSP functions is somewhat limited both here and at the Sony command site.
Yes, but get all the commands figured out first. Macros are just simply putting down the buttons in the order that you would push them. Sony has discrete commands for just about everything. That makes macros extremely reliable.
Fair enough, this is an important feature for my wife to like this remote. She (and I) really like being able to set everything to the correct inputs automatically between TV, HD Cable, and DVD. After some more reading it sounds like to use a device key for a macro I will have to use an "extender". This of course brings up another zillion questions. Can someone just confirm that it is possible to program a device button to hold down and activate a macro?
No question, about the macro design. That is what I have. You CAN assign a macro to a device key On the 2116/7, 8910, 9910, and probably a few others without an extender. But first start by assigning them to s shifted device key. When it works perfectly you can un-check the shift tick in the Macro.

I highly recommend extenders but again get all the basic macro's working first.
-Jon
cseyer
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:12 pm

Post by cseyer »

Thanks Jon you have cleared up a number of questions for me.

Two more newbie questions.

What is the shift key on the 2117?

Is there a good tutorial on macros and how to define them, I am still lost on this. I understand the concept and have macros on other remotes but the software interface in IR is confusing to me.
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Post by Mark Pierson »

cseyer wrote:What is the shift key on the 2117?
That would be the green P button. To use it for shifting, press and release it followed by the actual button. Note that if you uses shifted numeric buttons in an unextended remote, you need to press and release the shift button twice, followed by the numeric button. If not, the remote thinks you're trying to do a direct entry EFC ($-#-#-#).
Mark
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