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StuartMW
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 25
Location: SW Colorado
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 Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:09 pm Post subject: How smart is DecodeIR? |
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Over the last few days I figured out the EFC codes for my (1995) Kenwood Spectrum AV1040 audio system and programmed my URC-8811 remote with these using KM 8.12 and IR 4.01. However there are two original remote (RC-R0801) keys, Input+ and Input-, that I could not get working and had to "learn". What's weird however is that IR 4.01 reports, in the Learned Signals tab, that these two use the exact same protocol as all the others (NEC1, Device 184, sub-device 1) and shows the EFC codes for them as 110 and 044. However these EFC codes don't work and in fact 044 has an entirely different function.
So my question is: how smart is DecodeIR (v2.11 1/7/2004)? It would seem that its interpreting the data incorrectly.
PS: Incidently I tried all 256 EFC codes to try and find the Input+ and Input- functions but none worked.
PPS:
The raw data for Input+ is
+8892 -4508 +572 -548 +572 -548 +572 -548 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -548 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -548 +572 -548 +572 -548 +572 -548 +572 -548 +572 -548 +572 -548 +572 -548 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -548 +572 -1670 +572 -548 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -548 +572 -548 +572 -1670 +572 -548 +572 -1670 +572 -548 +572 -548 +572 -39726 +8892 -2248 +572 -95590 +8892 -2248 +572 -95590
Input - is
+8892 -4508 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -546 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -1670 +572 -1670 +572 -546 +572 -546 +572 -39726 +8892 -2248 +572 -95588 +8892 -2248 +572 -95588 |
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jon_armstrong
Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 1238
Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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DecodeIR is pretty reliable and I just manually decoded the signals you posted and they are exactly what Decode IR reported. You should post your file saved in IR in the diagnosis area as that will give us a little more information.
Do these learned commands work? Are you entering these EFC's as keymoves? What setup code are you using?
IIRC, there is a Kenwood setup code that is a combination protocol and probably uses two variable bytes and those don't work with EFC's.
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-Jon |
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StuartMW
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 25
Location: SW Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jon_armstrong wrote: |
You should post your file saved in IR in the diagnosis area as that will give us a little more information.
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Jon,
I just did. The filename is SMW_0214.txt
| jon_armstrong wrote: |
Do these learned commands work?
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Yes they do. Note that there's two copies in the file above as I use the Input+/Input- functions in two different devices (RCVR/CD and AUX).
| jon_armstrong wrote: |
Are you entering these EFC's as keymoves? What setup code are you using?
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No. I entered the EFC's into KM and uploaded the new device (code 2027) to my remote through IR. I used code 2027 as the URC code 1027 sort-of works with my system. Note that that code (2027) is assigned to both the RCVR and CD devices. Also, the code 0895 is mostly the same as 2017 and assigned to the AUX (tape deck) device.
| jon_armstrong wrote: |
IIRC, there is a Kenwood setup code that is a combination protocol and probably uses two variable bytes and those don't work with EFC's.
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As I've said, I created two device codes via KM and entered the EFC's. They both work great except for the inability to get the Input+ and Input- functions. |
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Mark Pierson
Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3017
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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A quick look at your file shows that EFC 044 is assigned to the RECORD button in the Audio/2027 upgrade.
Also, it appears that the upgrade is set for Device=184, Sub-Device=<blank> based on the Fixed Data. IR shows it to be "00 E2 E2". In KM, entering 184.1 = "20 E2 7F", while 184.<blank> = "00 E2 E2".
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Mark |
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StuartMW
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 25
Location: SW Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Pierson wrote: |
quick look at your file shows that EFC 044 is assigned to the RECORD button in the Audio/2027 upgrade.
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Exactly. As I said EFC 044 is another function altogether. DecodeIR claims 044 is Input+ but its not.
| Mark Pierson wrote: |
Also, it appears that the upgrade is set for Device=184, Sub-Device=<blank> based on the Fixed Data.
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Yep. I tried Sub-Device=1 with EFC's 044 and 110 and they didn't work. Incidently my Kenwood system doesn't seem to care what Sub-Device is used as all the other keys work when I change it. |
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Mark Pierson
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3017
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I can tell, Audio/1027 in the 8811 uses protocol $00B6 (with Device Code=184), not NEC1 ($005A). It's also a combo code that uses 2-byte commands, so maybe Jon's mention of Kenwood is valid. I'm thinking that the $00B6 signal is similar enough to NEC1 that maybe the decoder thinks it is NEC1. Jon or John would know that answer better than I.
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Notice the NEC1 Combo protocol in RemoteMaster. It uses protocol 00B6. I'm not sure what the deal is with NEC1 Combo in KM (00B6 has the advantage of being built in on some models).
If you are defining keymoves for a setup code that uses 00B6 you need two byte hex commands. For subdevice 1 EFC 044 the hex command is 7F CC. For subdevice 1 EFC 110 the hex command is 7F 94. |
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StuartMW
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 25
Location: SW Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Pierson wrote: |
As far as I can tell, Audio/1027 in the 8811 uses protocol $00B6 (with Device Code=184), not NEC1 ($005A).
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Well I tried finding Audio/1027 on this site and couldn't. However I found a match for "Kenwood" (0027) here. I don't recall where I got the NEC1 protocol from but it works.
| Mark Pierson wrote: |
It's also a combo code that uses 2-byte commands, so maybe Jon's mention of Kenwood is valid. I'm thinking that the $00B6 signal is similar enough to NEC1 that maybe the decoder thinks it is NEC1.
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May be. Do you know what protocol $00B6 coresponds to in KM? |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| StuartMW wrote: |
I tried Sub-Device=1 with EFC's 044 and 110 and they didn't work. Incidently my Kenwood system doesn't seem to care what Sub-Device is used as all the other keys work when I change it. |
You may need to upload the file in which you tried that, because those results don't make sense.
The commands using EFC's 044 and 110 would work if you had a correct upgrade for subdevice 1 (Though it's easier to just use the two byte hex command with the built in setup code).
I have seen some evidence that the ordinary commands (non subdevice 1) work the same with more than one subdevice value. But not with all subdevice values and definitely not with subdevice 1. |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| StuartMW wrote: |
Well I tried finding Audio/1027 on this site and couldn't.
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Audio/1027 is an NEC1 combo (as RemoteMaster would build it). Every key except TV/VCR uses no subdevice. TV/VCR is subdevice 1 EFC 0044.
The way RemoteMaster understands a combo, there is no choice for "no subdevice", so if you build this combo you need to use subdevice 71 where you want no subdevice, because "no device" in NEC is always encoded as a subdevice of 255 minus the device (255 minus 184 is 71).
| StuartMW wrote: |
May be. Do you know what protocol $00B6 coresponds to in KM? |
KM has an NEC1 combo, but it doesn't use the built in protocol, so it takes more room in upgrade memory. |
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StuartMW
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 25
Location: SW Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| johnsfine wrote: |
Notice the NEC1 Combo protocol in RemoteMaster. It uses protocol 00B6. I'm not sure what the deal is with NEC1 Combo in KM
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Ok, in KM the NEC "Protocol ID" are
NEC1 = 005A
NEC2 = 005A
NEC1 Combo = 0140
NEC2 Combo = 0140
NEC 2DEV Combo = 011A
NECx1 = 005A
NECx2 = 005A
KM does allow me to select "pid: 00 B6" but says its undocumented. Device is set at 184.
I'll give that a try and see if it works. |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| StuartMW wrote: |
KM does allow me to select "pid: 00 B6" but says its undocumented. Device is set at 184.
I'll give that a try and see if it works. |
I can't see why you'd want a whole combo upgrade, rather than using either a non combo upgrade plus a few Audio/1027 KeyMoves, or using Auidio/1027 itself plus a few KeyMoves.
But if you must try 00B6 in KM, on the Setup sheet you must set "2nd Cmd Byte" to the selection "Before Cmd Byte ('XX' xx)". Then on the functions sheet KM seems to need hex in the byte2 column (I'm not sure why. Maybe Mark can explain). The byte2 value for no subdevice is 1D. The byte2 value for subdevice 1 is 7F. |
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StuartMW
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 25
Location: SW Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| johnsfine wrote: |
I can't see why you'd want a whole combo upgrade, rather than using either a non combo upgrade plus a few Audio/1027 KeyMoves, or using Auidio/1027 itself plus a few KeyMoves.
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In KM I used NEC1 which is a non combo upgrade as I understand it. I didn't use Audio/1027 plus keymoves since only about 50% of stuff worked the way I wanted and many functions were missing.
| johnsfine wrote: |
But if you must try 00B6 in KM, on the Setup sheet you must set "2nd Cmd Byte" to the selection "Before Cmd Byte ('XX' xx)". Then on the functions sheet KM seems to need hex in the byte2 column (I'm not sure why. Maybe Mark can explain). The byte2 value for no subdevice is 1D. The byte2 value for subdevice 1 is 7F.
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Ok, I just updated my KM file as you suggested and used IR to get it into my URC-8811. The Input+ and Input- functions now work without being learned! I need to test all the other keys but the few I tried worked fine.
Thanks for your help! |
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StuartMW
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 25
Location: SW Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Mark Pierson wrote: |
As far as I can tell, Audio/1027 in the 8811 uses protocol $00B6 (with Device Code=184), not NEC1 ($005A).
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BTW, where did you find Audio/1027? I looked all over the place and couldn't find anything about it.
URL?
Incidently everything works after using protocol 00B6  |
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