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Pioneer Laserdisc question

 
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bsoplinger



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:29 pm    Post subject: Pioneer Laserdisc question Reply with quote

I have a Pioneer Laserdisk player, a CD/DVD/LD combi, and the radio shack code 0059, which is the only one listed for my 15-2117 doesn't work. I found a code over at the Yahoo site for a Pioneer LD/0023 but am unsure if that would work. Trouble is, I have 8 bytes free in upgrade memory (extender and other devices which need protocols too filled it) and I'm unsure how to go about figuring out how to convert the KM info into something I can try.

When I was asking about how to make space enough in my remote to fix the extender and the devices I already had someone there suggested I load a device upgrade and set no keys and just do it all via keymoves. Trouble is I have no idea how to convert from the KM info into keymoves. That is, if the device part has no keys defined, can I just copy the keymove section from KM into IR? Or do I still need to also copy the tiny device section also? I hope I'm asking a sensable question.

For that matter, are there other codes for Pioneer LD players besides the LD/0059 that my RS remote has and this LD/0023 file I found at Yahoo?
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your goal is to simply try the upgrade to see if it works, then all you need to do is save your current configuration, then clear it all out, load the upgrade and try it. If it doesn't work, oh well, if it does, then you have to figure out how to juggle your memory problems.

I'd be very curious to know how you managed to use up all of the memory in the first place, especially if you are using an extender.

Just FYI, I recently borrowed a bunch of Pioneer LD remotes from a friend so I could capture all the signals. I just haven't gotten around to creating upgrades for them all yet. So, if none of the posted Pioneer LD files work for you, wait for my upgrades as maybe one of them will be what you need.
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bsoplinger



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets see, extender 2, replaytv VCR/2000, Onkyo Reciever AMP/1135, Sony VCR/1032 devices 2 and 3 so that's 2 more, Scientific Atlanta 8000 CBL/0677. The combi protocol in the replay and Onkyo help take up the space. After deleting the pause protocol from the extender (I had already removed Device Specific Macros) and adding in the LD/0023 as a device with no buttons and all keymoves I'm at 7 bytes free in the device/upgrade section and about 120 in the keymove section. It was real easy to not have enough room Wink And I haven't even tried to add to the phantom devices to control my 2 SVHS and 1 Beta VCR and my MD player and .... Wink I need a remote with a double sized eprom!

The LD remote I'm looking at is model CU-DV001, is that one of the models you have that you're going to get around to doing? I ask because neither LD/0059 (built into the remote) nor LD/0023 have done me a bit of good. Both make the LD display light up when I press play but neither actually does anything and no other buttons even get a reaction from the LD player so I'm definitely going to need to some help in getting a good code or upgrade.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, like I said, adding the upgrade as a dummy upgrade and then creating lots of keymoves is a waste of time if you haven't verified first that the upgrade even works.

As for all your upgrades, many of them are replacing built in setup codes that would work your devices. For example, you could use VCR/0614 or VCR/0616 to work the Replay, then you could use keymoves to fill in the blanks.

I just did the Pioneer LD upgrades. There were 4 remotes I got the codes from, 3 of them turned out to use pretty much the same codes (all from Pioneer device code 168, which is the same as LD/0059) these were for an Elite CLD99, CDL503 and a 3020.

The other remote was for a DVL 91. This one used the Pioneer DVD protocol and has the same device codes as DVD/0571, but I didn't compare the OBCs. Maybe you should give that one a try.
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi BS,

As I recall, we had a pretty long discussion in THIS THREAD about your memory shortages. Although my response toward the end got a little rude, for which I apologize, I wonder if you ever tried at least the Onkyo upgrade I posted in that thread to try to recover some of your upgrade space?

If what I wrote and posted there still was unclear, I'm willing to try to help, if you post a zip file containing your entire upgrade (the IR upgrade, and the individual KM files for each device included).

A readme describing what each is and what you have tried to accomplish would also help.
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bsoplinger



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few things:

1) I managed to figure out I could do without 1 of the Sony VCR upgrades and without Device Specific Macros and that was just enough to shoehorn my basic 7 devices into the 15-2116.

2) Now I'm adding other devices, the first was my Pioneer Combi LD/DVD player and I'm stumped.

2a) From The Robman's comment about one of the LD remotes generating DVD codes (which I never would have thought to try even though the player I have does play DVDs, I think of it as a LD player not a DVD) I tried DVD/0571 with limited results. A quick perusal of what built in codes there are for a Pioneer DVD player got me decent results. DVD/0525 seems to be a close match.

2b) The arrows/select/other things from DVD/0525 don't seem to work right, so I pulled out my 8810 and learned some of the commands I need/want. The ones for the arrows and select make sense, but those on the learning keys (L1-L4) don't. They show 2 codes each. I've put a file up at Yahoo showing this so hopefully someone can explain it to me.

2c) The file is called Pioneer LD learned 881x.txt

3) Capn Trips mentioned that other thread and I'm still unclear. Say for example I use the 'basic' built in code for the replay and want all those other functions that aren't in the built in code. How do I figure out what to do to make it all work? That is, I'd have no special device VCR/0616 in my remote, so how do I get all the keys that are in the special 616 file at the Yahoo area into my remote? As keymoves I know, but just how? Could you give me a detailed instruction of a key or two? I figure I can manage if I have a concrete example. Say the descrete on and off commands? Or the replay guide on the favorites button? Or any of the other things that the upgrade has that the basic version doesn't. This is where I don't understand the relationship between the built in device definition and the upgrades in the Yahoo files section. New devices, like my Cyberhome DVD player make sense, but "improvements" to existing devices, that's where I just don't get the magic of it all. Probably something really basic by it just isn't clicking.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bsoplinger wrote:
2a) From The Robman's comment about one of the LD remotes generating DVD codes (which I never would have thought to try even though the player I have does play DVDs, I think of it as a LD player not a DVD) I tried DVD/0571 with limited results. A quick perusal of what built in codes there are for a Pioneer DVD player got me decent results. DVD/0525 seems to be a close match.

2b) The arrows/select/other things from DVD/0525 don't seem to work right, so I pulled out my 8810 and learned some of the commands I need/want. The ones for the arrows and select make sense, but those on the learning keys (L1-L4) don't. They show 2 codes each. I've put a file up at Yahoo showing this so hopefully someone can explain it to me.

Before I spend too much time digging into this further, can you confirm that you tried the one Pioneer LD file that i loaded that uses the DVD protocol (ie, similar to the 0525/0571 codes).

If you read the help info in KM for the Pioneer DVD protocol, you would know that 2-part signals are totally expected.
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bsoplinger wrote:
Could you give me a detailed instruction of a key or two?

You have 2 options:

Option 1:
  • Use IR's Key Moves tab and select the Bound Device and Key you want to use.
  • Set the Device Type to VCR, Setup Code to 0614 or 0616 as appropriate.
  • For 0616, enter the EFC command. For 0614, you'll need to select the "Hex Cmd" radio button and enter the 2-byte hex code (as generated by the KM upgrade).

Option 2:
  • Use the appropriate KM upgrade and make sure ALL the functions you may want are defined on the Functions sheet.
  • Use KM's Key Moves sheet and select "(upgrade)" as the Bound Device, and select the appropriate Bound Key for every function you want a key move for.
  • Copy the Key Move code from the Setup sheet, and use the Import button on IR's Key Moves sheet (do NOT copy & paste the Device Upgrade Code).

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bsoplinger



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I assume the file Robman is talking about is the one called "Pioneer_LD_-_DVL_91.txt" in which case that one doesn't work for me. Guide and Menu call up the program and menu but the arrow keys don't work. Pretty much like the standard DVD/0571 behaves. My combi LD/DVD much prefers the DVD/0525 code I mentioned.

The Protocol Help section of that LD file is pretty interesting though, especially this part:
Quote:
To determine the OBC or EFC values: for the 163 single-part
signals, use the command code (OBC or EFC). For the two-part
signals, use the command code from the 175 signal (OBC or EFC).

So does that mean if one 2 part signal is decoded by IR.exe as 175/252/C0/012 [Device/OBC/Hex/EFC] I can just put in a keymove using the EFC of 012? So in IR.exe keymove tab, I'd put DVD and 175 for the device button/type and command code, then use an EFC of 012?
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bsoplinger wrote:
So does that mean if one 2 part signal is decoded by IR.exe as 175/252/C0/012 [Device/OBC/Hex/EFC] I can just put in a keymove using the EFC of 012? So in IR.exe keymove tab, I'd put DVD and 175 for the device button/type and command code, then use an EFC of 012?

The version of the DVD/0525 code that's in the 15-2116 doesn't support keymoves, so you should be looking at creating an upgrade in KM for it. If you really want to use keymoves, you will have to let KM generate the hex code for you.
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bsoplinger wrote:
So does that mean if one 2 part signal is decoded by IR.exe as 175/252/C0/012 [Device/OBC/Hex/EFC] I can just put in a keymove using the EFC of 012? So in IR.exe keymove tab, I'd put DVD and 175 for the device button/type and command code, then use an EFC of 012?

I think you're confused about Key Moves. They need to be bound to a Setup Code (i.e. DVD/0525). The 175 you're referring to is a Device Code, which is NOT the same as a Setup Code. A Device Code is used as data by the protocol executor (called by the Setup Code) to construct the IR signal, along with the command code.

In this case, as Rob has been trying to say, DVD/0525 in the 2116 uses 2-byte commands, meaning you CANNOT create key moves in IR by entering just an EFC. You need to select the "Hex Cmd" radio button, then enter the 2-byte code (which can be calculated for you by KM; or you can let KM create the key move for you as part of the device upgrade).

The Pioneer protocols are especially confusing in that most of them use 2-byte commands, even when IR decodes them as what appears to be a 1-byte command.
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bsoplinger



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Pierson wrote:

You have 2 options:

Option 1: ....
Option 2:
  • Use the appropriate KM upgrade and make sure ALL the functions you may want are defined on the Functions sheet.
  • Use KM's Key Moves sheet and select "(upgrade)" as the Bound Device, and select the appropriate Bound Key for every function you want a key move for.
  • Copy the Key Move code from the Setup sheet, and use the Import button on IR's Key Moves sheet (do NOT copy & paste the Device Upgrade Code).


OK, Option 1 makes sense, although again, it begs the question how would I know 0614 uses 2 byte codes and 0616 uses EFCs? There's something basic here I'm either missing or not understanding.

Option 2: So I load an upgrade, go to the Key move tab in KM and fill in all the keymoves I want then on the main page use the button there to copy the info then go to IR and paste those keymoves, without ever loading the upgrade itself into the remote? And I pick the "(upgrade)" as the device, not the key on the 2116 that I've used for the replay? This last part seems very confusing, wouldn't I want it to be CD (which is the key I used) instead of (upgrade) seeing as I'm not even loading the upgrade into my remote?

I'm sorry if I'm asking questions that are answered elsewhere, but I have looked and just haven't seen anywhere where this magic is explained. It doesn't seem very complicated once one understands, but I'm not there yet.
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bsoplinger



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, things are getting clearer, in just how much I don't understand yet Wink

Out of curiosity, how does one know that in the 2116, DVD/0525 uses 2 byte commands?

Then on to the admonition to create an upgrade...

How do I even start to go about doing that? And what's worse, I don't have room for an upgrade unless we revisit my space issue. Can I just fake an upgrade in KM (assuming I learn how to make an upgrade in the first place) and then go to the keymove tab and generate the hex codes for entry into IR and keep/use the basic built-in DVD/0525 device from the ROM in the 2116 and my new keymoves? I have keymove space left Wink
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bsoplinger wrote:
Out of curiosity, how does one know that in the 2116, DVD/0525 uses 2 byte commands?

Generally, one of us will tell you. If you want to be able to determine such things by yourself, here's what you do. Create a keymove on the remote itself (ie, NOT using IR.exe), and by "keymove" I mean copy a button from one place to another, I don't mean entering a 3-digit EFC. Then look at the keymove in IR.exe where you will be able to see if it uses one or two bytes of hex. [NOTE to URC-6131 users: this doesn't apply to you].

bsoplinger wrote:
Then on to the admonition to create an upgrade...

Was there an "admonition" somewhere that I missed?

bsoplinger wrote:
How do I even start to go about doing that?

You take the upgrade that I posted for you and use it as a starting point, then you delete the functions that don't work, you re-name the ones that do something different and you add the remaining functions using the information that you gleemed from learning the signals from your Pioneer remote.

bsoplinger wrote:
And what's worse, I don't have room for an upgrade unless we revisit my space issue.

I'd like to see a copy of the IR.exe file for your 15-2117, that would greatly help me understand where all your memory is going.
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Last edited by The Robman on Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bsoplinger wrote:
it begs the question how would I know 0614 uses 2 byte codes and 0616 uses EFCs?
Out of curiosity, how does one know that in the 2116, DVD/0525 uses 2 byte commands?

Because Rob says so! Laughing Actually, it comes from experience.

Quote:
And I pick the "(upgrade)" as the device, not the key on the 2116 that I've used for the replay? This last part seems very confusing, wouldn't I want it to be CD (which is the key I used) instead of (upgrade) seeing as I'm not even loading the upgrade into my remote?

If you select Device Type = CD on the Setup sheet, then using "(upgrade)" is the same as selecting "CD" on the Key Moves sheet. If you don't select "CD" on the Setup sheet, then, yes, you need to specify "CD" as the bound device on the key moves.

Quote:
Then on to the admonition to create an upgrade...

How do I even start to go about doing that? And what's worse, I don't have room for an upgrade unless we revisit my space issue.

You must know how to create an upgrade if your upgrade space is so limited. Shocked Or, have you just been using existing files and pasting the code into IR?

Quote:
Can I just fake an upgrade in KM (assuming I learn how to make an upgrade in the first place) and then go to the keymove tab and generate the hex codes for entry into IR and keep/use the basic built-in DVD/0525 device from the ROM in the 2116 and my new keymoves? I have keymove space left.

Have you read the "keymap-master-readme.txt" file and JP1 for Beginner's (a downloadable version can be found here)? Between the two, you should get a basic understanding of how to build an upgrade.

Since you're using the built-in DVD/0525 code for most of your functions, you don't need to create an actual upgrade device. All you want is to fill in a few missing functions with key moves, since you have very limited upgrade space available. The exercise of using KM to build an upgrade file is really just to calculate the 2-byte codes for you, since you can't enter simple EFC's in IR for the key moves. Since you're using KM anyway, you might as well let it do all the hard work (of creating the key moves) for you! Wink
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