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Digital Cameras for IR Detection

 
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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 6953
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:53 pm    Post subject: Digital Cameras for IR Detection Reply with quote

I've often recommended using a phone to check if a signal is being sent by the original remote. I used to do that all the time. I just had to do this tonight and found my iPhone 6 doesn't show IR signals anymore. I happened to have my old iPhone 4 charged up and sure enough that digital camera shows them fine. So the phone's digital camera's may not work for testing anymore. I'd really like to know if this is a problem for all newer cell phones, or only an apple issue.


If you have a newer smart phone or newer digital camera could you report back here with a letting us know if it still does see IR signals.


EDIT:

Here are the results.


A cell phone camera is almost always the most convenient way of determining if there is an ir signal being transmitted from an ir blaster or remote. The IR typically signal shows up as a flickering white light when a signal is being sent.

We've discovered a wrinkle in that newer high end cameras are filtering out the ir signals. If you have a recent apple phone, the back camera will not register Infrared signals, but the lower quality front facing cameras still work fine for detection.

Some cameras like my Sony CX 5000 barely register the infrared signals. If I didn't know what I was looking for, I never would have seen it.

So make sure to check the front facing camera of your phone before you declare a remote or ir blaster to be dead.


---------------
smart phones
---------------
iphone 4 - yes
iphone 4s -yes
iphone 5 - back NO front YES
iphone 5c -back NO front YES
iphone 6 -back NO front YES
iphone 6s -back NO front YES
iphone SE - back NO front YES

Google Pixel - probably yes

Nexus 4 - yes
Nexus 5 - yes
Nexus 6P - yes

One Plus 3t - Yes

Samsung Galaxy 7 - Yes


----------
Cameras
----------
Canon A70 - yes
Canon A720IS - yes
Canon Eo64500D (DSLR) yes
Canon S5IS - yes
Logitech C270 (Webcam) - yes
Sony CX 5000 - Yes but very dim
Sony Xperia Z2 - Yes
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Last edited by vickyg2003 on Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:16 pm; edited 5 times in total
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pH7_jp1



Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 457
Location: Sterling Heights, MI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Samsung Galaxy S7 still shows IR just fine. I tried my wife's iPhone SE and you are right, it's a no-show.
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Barf
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abstractly speaking, a camera should depict the picture as close a possible to the way the human eye sees it. So, a camera not responsible to IR is the better camera. My guess is that less and less "high-end" cameras will be responsible to IR.

Responsible to IR:
* Sony Xperia Z2,
* Canon EOS450D (DSLR)
* Logitech C270 (Webcam)
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MaskedMan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My One Plus 3t cell phone still shows IR beam.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Phil, Bengt and Edmund.
Its disappointing that there are so few responses after so many views when its such an easy test to perform. Hopefully it is just that they all have one of the smart phone models listed

---------------
smart phones
---------------
iphone 4 - yes
iphone 4s -yes
iphone 5 - unknown
iphone 5c -unknown
iphone 6 -NO
iphone 6s - unknown
iphone SE - NO

One Plus 3t - Yes

Samsung Galaxy 7 - Yes


----------
Cameras
----------
Canon Eo64500D (DSLR) yes
Logitech C270 (Webcam) yes
Sony CX 5000 - Yes but very dim
Sony Xperia Z2, Yes
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yaworski



Joined: 22 Jun 2014
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Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CCD and CMOS chips are very sensitive to (near) IR light. Because of that all digital cameras are equipped with IR cut-off filters in their optics. Some filters are better than others making the IR from the remote's blaster not being visible by the chip.

Most Canon point-and-shoot cameras are sensitive to IR. I've had few models (A70, A720IS, S5IS) and they all "see" IR signals.

All Nexus phones I've had (Nexus 4, Nexus 5, Nexus 6P now) have IR sensitive cameras. I think Nexus 5X also should be sensitive as it uses the same camera module as 6P. I think both Google Pixel phones from last year also use the same or very similar camera module.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the information Marcin. I've updated the first post with the models you provided.
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing on my iPhone 6s
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bobshults



Joined: 07 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iphone 6: Rear camera: no. Front Facetime camera: yes
ipod Touch 4th gen: Rear camera: no. Front Facetime camera: yes
Ipad 9.7in (2017): Rear camera: no. Front Facetime camera: yes
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Greg.

Bob THANK YOU!! I never thought of using the front camera.!!!! That works great.
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zaphod7501



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iphone 5: Rear camera: no. Front Facetime camera: yes
In a Lifeproof case which could influence the detection, I suppose.
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPhone 6s front FaceTime camera: yes
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unclemiltie
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barf wrote:
Abstractly speaking, a camera should depict the picture as close a possible to the way the human eye sees it. So, a camera not responsible to IR is the better camera. My guess is that less and less "high-end" cameras will be responsible to IR.


Correct!. the CMOS and CCD image sensors used in almost every digital camera ever made are very sensitive to IR. So much so that every camera has an IR filter put on in front of the sensor to take the IR out because the signal will overwhelm the visible signal. Often this is an IR filter coated onto one of the lens elements.

The more expensive cameras have better IR filters and thus the signal that actually reaches the sensor is "more true" to the visible light than the cheaper ones. But as a result they are less sensitive to IR frequencies.
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HamburgerHelper1



Joined: 22 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: ir detection Reply with quote

If your camera won't do the trick for testing ir output

You can try pointing your remote at a night light

I tested this today A dark room with photo sensor night light
I had to be about an inch from the sensor but push remote buttons
and the night light flickers to the pulse of the Ir

Just giving you another option for testing if Ir is outputting
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

unclemiltie wrote:
Barf wrote:
Abstractly speaking, a camera should depict the picture as close a possible to the way the human eye sees it. So, a camera not responsible to IR is the better camera. My guess is that less and less "high-end" cameras will be responsible to IR.


Correct!. the CMOS and CCD image sensors used in almost every digital camera ever made are very sensitive to IR. So much so that every camera has an IR filter put on in front of the sensor to take the IR out because the signal will overwhelm the visible signal. Often this is an IR filter coated onto one of the lens elements.

With an occupation of "mobile phone camera modules" we will definitely defer to you on this. Thanks for your input Bill.


HambergerHelper1 wrote:
You can try pointing your remote at a night light

It took me a while to locate my night light with the light sensor and find a working light bulb to fit it, and find an outlet in a dark room, but I see that it does show you that the IR is sending signals. Not nearly as convenient as looking at it in the hand held phone in any light. Thanks for the idea. Its just one more way to test in a home where a user has light sensitive night lights and no cell phone. That really does apply to lots of my elderly friends.
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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