Sky and Sky+ remotes - Easy (or not) to JP1?

Post by **The Robman** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:03 pm

I'm realizing that I need to be more careful what I volunteer to do as I don't have enough time to get through my "to do" list, so I'm going to pass on this for now.

As Mike-C is in the UK and has modified these remotes before, maybe he'd be willing to take a look.

I should point out that the PCB with the 6 holes in it doesn't have any traces running from the 6 holes, so you would nee dto glue the 6-pin in place and run wires from them to the various points on the PCB, which makes it more than a 5 minute mod.

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:53 am

Mike-C · Post by **Mike-C** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:57 pm

Interesting....

There's yet another version of the Sky remote control.

I think yours is the latest "Version 6" remote as it has a loudspeaker on the 0 button. It certainly looks like Sky initially planned for the remote to be JP1-able but, for whatever reason, changed their minds. The PCBs are certainly different from the two versions I've seen and it's a bit strange that they didn't add the tracks to the 6 pin header.

From looking at your photos, it's probably safe to say that the 8 pin footprint is for an EEPROM and the 6 holes are for the 6 pin header. I'm not too sure what the footprint between pins 7 and 8 of the EEPROM is for - perhaps it's for a decoupling capacitor that has been added to this remote?

Would it be possible to post a full picture of the track side of the PCB? Although the 28 pin device fitted in your remote control is different to the ones in mine, it has the same number of pins and, with any luck, the pinout may be mostly the same. If we know which pins the empty component footprints trace back to, it should be possible to work out where to fit the capacitor and resistors.

If you are still keen, I would be happy to take a look at your remote control and see if it can have the JP1 bits added, although I can't make any guarantees. I'm a bit busy at work this week but things should be a lot quieter next week.

Interestingly your SKy+ remote control uses the same 28 pin device as the standard Sky remote. If the standard remote can be make JP1-able, it should be possible to do the same with the Sky+ one too although I don't know where in the case the 6 pin header would be fitted.

I opened my Sky+ remote (without the loudspeaker on the 0 button) and it has a different PCB layout. I found it used a 28 pin SC50189P and the capacitor, 474 and 104 resistors are already fitted. There are no empty footprints for the two 103 resistors, EEPROM or JP1 connector. When I get a bit more time next week, I might take a soldering iron to my remote and see what I can find out.....

Mike

Post by **ElizabethD** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:55 pm

Capn Trips wrote:

Capn Trips wrote: Rob,

I can't figure out to upload pictures into the body of a post here

The Robman wrote: You can only include pics into the body of a post if you first find a place to host them. If you don't have any means to load them up to the web, then just zip them together and load them into the Diag Area and I'll grab them from there.

Capn Trips, here is one way
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic14738.html

Cool pics of the remote.
I once soldered a good hunk of a Dyna amplifier in the days when you could actually fit a soldering iron between the components' pins and live to tell about it

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:21 pm

Mike-C wrote: it has a loudspeaker on the 0 button.

HUH? I see nothing like a loudspeaker. The hole in the PCB simply allows a pass-thru screw to hold the two halves of the case together.

Mike-C wrote:It certainly looks like Sky initially planned for the remote to be JP1-able ...
Would it be possible to post a full picture of the track side of the PCB? ....

I thought that I had. If that pic is too hard to work from, I'll try to get a better one posted.

Mike-C wrote: If you are still keen, I would be happy to take a look at your remote control and see if it can have the JP1 bits added, although I can't make any guarantees. I'm a bit busy at work this week but things should be a lot quieter next week.

As I told Rob, I'm in no particular hurry, as I'm using HTPros for all of my HT locations, but figured if these were UEI remotes, the research effort for the sake of knowledge might be worthwhile. I'm happy to mail them both out to you, and have no real timeline (short of three months or so) that I would like them back.

Mike-C wrote:Interestingly your SKy+ remote control uses the same 28 pin device as the standard Sky remote. If the standard remote can be make JP1-able, it should be possible to do the same with the Sky+ one too although I don't know where in the case the 6 pin header would be fitted.

Yeah, me neither. It appears that one could potentially (after wiring it) hotglue the 6pin header on the back side of the PCB and squeeze it in between the battery compartment and the screw hole, but it would still require some cutting of the lower case to allow access to the 6-pin.

If you're willing to do take this on, PM me your address and I'll drop them in the Royal Mail for you in a few days. My bottom line goal would be to have the remotes (1) JP1-able, and (2) rdf's built for KM/RM and IR support. Then it's just experiment to see what one can get crammed in there, capability-wise.

whompus · Post by **whompus** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:06 pm

If you need to post pix again anywhere check out this site

It is free hosting of pix with resize and even a sidebar to open and not leave the site you are posting on.

Mike-C · Post by **Mike-C** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:19 am

Capn Trips wrote:HUH? I see nothing like a loudspeaker. The hole in the PCB simply allows a pass-thru screw to hold the two halves of the case together.

I meant the rubber button which has a picture of a loudspeaker printed on it. This has only been added fairly recently in readiness for the new EPG which is coming "soon".

Capn Trips wrote:I thought that I had. If that pic is too hard to work from, I'll try to get a better one posted.

The one posted is useful but doesn't quite have enough detail to trace the tracks from the 28 pin device to where the resistors and capacitors go. Another one would be great, if it's possible.

Capn Trips wrote:As I told Rob, I'm in no particular hurry, as I'm using HTPros for all of my HT locations, but figured if these were UEI remotes, the research effort for the sake of knowledge might be worthwhile. I'm happy to mail them both out to you, and have no real timeline (short of three months or so) that I would like them back.

If you're willing to do take this on, PM me your address and I'll drop them in the Royal Mail for you in a few days. My bottom line goal would be to have the remotes (1) JP1-able, and (2) rdf's built for KM/RM and IR support. Then it's just experiment to see what one can get crammed in there, capability-wise.

No problem. If I can get back to you next week when I'll have a bit more time, we'll see if we can get at least the standard Sky remote upgraded. Whether an RDF file for this newest version of the Sky remote needs updating/creating is another matter but there's only one way to find out...

Mike

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:41 pm

Mike-C wrote:I meant the rubber button which has a picture of a loudspeaker printed on it. This has only been added fairly recently in readiness for the new EPG which is coming "soon".

Oh. How perceptive of me. I had never previously even noticed that little detail. Yeah, it's definitely not described anywhere in the documentation - heck the pictures in the Sky+ manual don't even have that little icon printed under the "0"

Mike-C wrote:The one posted is useful but doesn't quite have enough detail to trace the tracks from the 28 pin device to where the resistors and capacitors go. Another one would be great, if it's possible.

OK, I'll try to get to it the next few days.

Mike-C wrote:No problem. If I can get back to you next week when I'll have a bit more time, we'll see if we can get at least the standard Sky remote upgraded.

Cool. As I said, no hurry, but as a research project, I'm willing to support as much as I can.

Now I'm tempted to dismantle my OLDER Sky+ remote and see if it is identical to my new one!

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:17 pm

Mike-C wrote:The one posted is useful but doesn't quite have enough detail to trace the tracks from the 28 pin device to where the resistors and capacitors go. Another one would be great, if it's possible.

OK here goes (I hope I don't break something!)

New regular Sky remote (RC 1600/00U)
IC - SC516513PE
0L78P
CTDQ0430:

My "Old" (January 2005, provided with an AMSTRAD Box) Sky+ remote (RC 1680/00U)
IC - SC516513PE
0L78P
CTBP0424:

My "New" (December 2005, provided with a THOMPSON Box) Sky+ remote

(URC 1650-01 B00 3RC16P-1014 Sky+ Rev.6)
IC - SC516513PE
0L78P
CTDR0431:

I note that the two Sky+ remotes are markedly different. the "New" has each button pad labelled with the button name, whereas the other two do not, and the location of various resistors and jumper sites appear to be different (like near the IR emitter end of the remote, rather than the "tail" end!). Heck, even the main IC appears to be rotated 180 out from the way it's mounted on the Sky and the "Old" Sky+.

I hope these pictures are helpful. I have more closeups (5-6 pics to put together the whole CB) if you want to check them out. I'm happy to post more if necessary.

mr_d_p_gumby · Post by **mr_d_p_gumby** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:56 pm

The fact that all 3 have a processor marked "SC516513PE" means that they are all using the same internal ROM contents, regardless of the physical PC board differences.

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:00 pm

Which means, if you can figure out where to run the wires by comparing the boards, they can all be made into JP1 remotes.

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:37 am

So for each of the three remotes I need to identify where the EEPROM and 6-pin connections should go. If I'm lucky, there will be an obvious locations with solder points for the 8 pins of the EEPROM, like:
for my Sky remote

lower right corner; or
for my "old" Sky+ remote

middle bottom of this picture; and
on my "new" Sky+ remote

it looks like positions for both the EEPROM and the 6-pin are right in the center of that top piece. Is that right?

As for the 6-pin location, here I'm really lost. Apart from the seemingly obvious 6-pin location FORWARD of the IC on the "new" Sky+ (I think) I saw in the picture above, it appears I will need to run wires for the Sky and the "old" Sky+ remotes. How do I identify where these wires need to be connected? I'm quite UN-confident that I can do this without really gooning it up.

.

P.S. It may be time to move this over to the Harware forum

Post by **The Robman** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:10 am

THis is from memory, so I'll edit it later if I spot a mistake, but here are the destinations for each pin

1 - voltage (I forget + or -)
2 - voltage (I forget + or -)
3 - ground
4 - pin 5 of EEPROM
5 - reset line of CPU
6 - pin 6 of EEPROM

Also, when you look at the vacant spots where the EEPROM should go, pins 1 thru 4 go on the side where all of the pins are tied together.

For one of the Sky remotes that I modified, I had to add a small circuit board for BOTH the EEPROM and 6-pin as there wasn't space for either. Somebody else did this mod also and posted pics.

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:24 am

Rob, you obviously mistake me for someone with a clue

Aside from the challenge of learning how to solder

, I'm pretty sure I can identify where the four EEPROM pins are shorted together, so I'm likely to place IT in the correct spot and orientation. But how do I identify a point on the PCB that has V+, V-, Gnd, and the Reset line? I can trace, .... uhhhh .... traces if I know what IC pins these correspond to , but otherwise, it's all Greek markings on the PCB. Presumable there are locations/pins right at the EEPROM that correspond to those points (?)

Another question - jumpers? I read of them ocassionally. How do I know if I need one and where?

Digression: wrote: I presume the EEPROM pins (as I look at it from above with four pins horizontally across the top and 4 across the bottom) are numbered:

1 2 3 4

5 6 7 8

whilst the 6-pin connector pins are numbered:

1 3 5

2 4 6

Is that correct? End digression.

Looking at my bottom picture (the "new"Sky+, which appears to be the only one of the three with a 6-pin geometry on the PCB - not in a particularly handy place, but it's there, nonetheless), which appears to have both pads for the EEPROM and the 6-pin in the same area, I sort of conclude that:
(1) EEPROM pins 1-4 and JP1 pin 3 are connected - ground(?);
(2) EEPROM pin 5 is connected to JP1 pin 1;
(3) EEPROM pin 8 is connected to JP1 pin 6;

These differ from your ID above.

Which leaves me to locate where to connect JP1 pins 2, 4 and 5. It's unclear (and I'm no expert on reading PCB traces, but it appears like JP1 pins 2, 4 and 6 might all be connected together, as well, which would make no sense, would it?

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:16 am

Well, I've decided to focus on the (presumably?) easiest one, the "new" Sky+ remote, which (I hope) has pads for BOTH the EEPROM and the 6-pin connector. Can somebody please take a look at THIS PHOTO (higher res than I can post in a post) and tell me if I'm on the right track, to wit, the group of two rows of four pads just left of center are for the EEPROM, whilst the group of six (apparent) pads near the center, just to the right of those eight, should be for a 6-pin connector?

If that's the case, I should be able to examine side-by-side the other version to see where to connect other components.