JP1 Remotes

SysTech_Larry wrote:My Magnavox DVD TV OEM remote uses TV code 1963 (NEC1 135.34)
My Emerson HDTV TV OEM remote uses TV code 1864 (NEC1 132.224), but most accepts basic TV commands from protocols @ TV-1963 (& TV-1394, Emerson Combo 41).

When you say the Emerson uses TV/1864 but accepts codes from TV/1963, is there anything missing from TV/1864 that you need and can only get from TV/1963? If so, like what?

We have 2 Emerson TV upgrades that use NEC1 132.224 that you could try:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5957
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=10501

The only difference between the 2 of them is the OBC for "Still".

My goal here is to get a single upgrade that will work your Emerson TV without the need to pull in any other codes. I assume the Magnavox DVD works ok "as is". If not, we have several Magnavox DVD upgrades that use NEC1 132.224:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=9218
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5684
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3236
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5868
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=11480
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=4120
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3063

SysTech_Larry wrote:On the URC-3660, key-moving the Emerson's exceptional keys in with the Magnavox device has worked fine, but the Charter URC does not maintain individual key protocols in the same scenario. I was hoping that your formal method would work on the Charter URC.

You lost me here, what does "the Charter URC does not maintain individual key protocols in the same scenario" mean? I don't know what an "individual key protocol" is.

Would it be fair to say that you goal here is just to make your 2 JP1 remotes work both the Magnavox DVD and Emerson TV? Is that really all we're trying to do here? All of this stuff about combining codes is just your proposed solution, rather than a description of the problem?

On my URC-3660, my DVD button that is set for the Magnavox (TV-1963) also controls most functions on my Emerson.
I added seven keys from the Emerson set (TV-1864) to the DVD device,

OBC (hex) Function @Key
131 (83) AV Mode @List,
120 (78) Back @shift-Back,
101 (65) Audio @Green,
158 (9E) Freeze/Still @Blue,
144 (90) Aspect @App1,
027 (1B) Dot @Dash &
119 (77) OK @shift-OK .

[Note: above listed edited by Rob to include decimal OBCs]

After that, I can operate all of the functions of both the Magnavox & the Emerson from the DVD button on the URC-3660. The URC-3660 remembers that the List, shift-Back, Green, Blue, App1, Dash & shift-OK buttons are [Emerson/1864] buttons.

When I set up the DVD button in the same fashion on the Charter URC, it retains the assigned OBCs, but interprets them as [Magnavox/1963] keys.
I was hoping that a formal "Device Combiner" might be correctly interpreted by the latter URC.

So, your "requirement" is that both of your remotes control both the Magnavox DVD and Emerson TV, what we're debating is the "solution" as to HOW to make that happen, correct?

The primary setup code for your Magnavox DVD player is TV/1963 (NEC1 135.34)
The primary setup code for your Emerson TV is TV/1864 (NEC1 132.224)
But, the Emerson TV also (accidentally) responds to some buttons in the TV/1963 setup code.

Most people would regard that last part as a bad thing, because it means that, when you're pressing a button for the DVD, the TV might do something too. Also, that last part is what seems to be sending you down the "combine" rabbit hole, and I think we need to pull you back out of that.

What's stopping you from just using TV/1963 (or a similar upgrade) on the DVD button for the DVD and TV/1864 (or a similar upgrade) on the TV button for the TV?

As for why what you did worked on the 3660 and not the Charter, I'd have to see both RMIR files to see exactly what you did, to be able to answer that.

The Robman wrote:So, your "requirement" is that both of your remotes control both the Magnavox DVD and Emerson TV, what we're debating is the "solution" as to HOW to make that happen, correct?

The primary setup code for your Magnavox DVD player is TV/1963 (NEC1 135.34)
The primary setup code for your Emerson TV is TV/1864 (NEC1 132.224)
But, the Emerson TV also (accidentally) responds to some buttons in the TV/1963 setup code.

Most people would regard that last part as a bad thing, because it means that, when you're pressing a button for the DVD, the TV might do something too.

They are in two different rooms.

The Robman wrote: What's stopping you from just using TV/1963 (or a similar upgrade) on the DVD button for the DVD and TV/1864 (or a similar upgrade) on the TV button for the TV?

As for why what you did worked on the 3660 and not the Charter, I'd have to see both RMIR files to see exactly what you did, to be able to answer that.

The failure described with TV-1963 & TV-1864 (with everything defaulting to TV-1963) happened when I used two upgrades, instead.

If combining them is too difficult to produce, I can see if the Charter properly handles my Sony upgrade. It is already built on two devices and is known to be working on the 3660.

If the 2 devices are in 2 different rooms, then you only need each remote to work one of the devices, right?

You keep giving vague descriptions of what went wrong with the Charter remote, yet you keep failing to provide the actual RMIR file that would show us what you did. That's kind of like having a non-mechanic describe the problems he's having when he tries to fix his car himself to an actual mechanic over the phone, yet never actually bringing the car into the mechanic to show him.

This problem predates my use of RMIR, and it follows the Charter URC. In all variations of this problem, the OBCs have been maintained, but the associated [guest?] protocols have not.

I use the 3660 throughout the house.
My wife uses the Charter throughout the house.

Here are the requested RMIR files, http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=26951

In the 3660 file, I see:
* Magnavox NF102UD programmed to the DVD button as TV/1821, which is an upgrade that uses NEC1 135.34
* Magnavox NF102UD-Emerson NH303UD Hybrid programmed to the Audio button as TV/1945, which is an upgrade that uses NEC1-f16 Official and this combines NEC1 132.224 and 135.34
* there are 4 keymoves from TV/1821 in DVD mode to program some shifted keys

In the Charter (keymoves) file, I see:
* Magnavox NF102UD programmed to the AUX button as TV/1821, which is an upgrade that uses NEC1 135.34
* Emerson NH303UD as an upgrade named TV/1154 that's not programmed to any device buttons.
* there are 2 keymoves from TV/1821 in AUX mode to program some shifted keys
* there are 2 keymoves from TV/1154 in DVD mode to program CH+/- (DVD mode is for the Toshiba SE-R0220)
* there are 3 keymoves from TV/1154 in AUX mode to program Aspect and some shifted keys

In the Charter (hybrid) file, I see:
* Magnavox NF102UD-Emerson NH303UD Hybrid programmed to the AUX button as TV/1945, which is an upgrade that uses NEC1-f16 Official and this combines NEC1 132.224 and 135.34
* there are no relevant keymoves in this file

Now I'm taking a closer look at the buttons that you've programmed. As the CH +/- buttons are ones that you've re-programmed, I am focusing on those.

In the 3660 file, the Audio device button uses the 1945 upgrade, where most of the buttons come from NEC1 135.34, but some come from NEC1 132.224, including CH +/- with OBCs 80 and 81

In the Charter (keymoves) file, the AUX device button uses the 1821 upgrade, where all of the buttons come from NEC1 135.34, the CH +/- are not programmed as part of the upgrade, nor with keymoves.

In the Charter (hybrid) file, the AUX device button uses the 1945 upgrade, where most of the buttons come from NEC1 135.34, but some come from NEC1 132.224, including CH +/- with OBCs 80 and 81.

So, based on the files, I can fully understand why the CH +/- buttons don't work in the Charter (keymoves) file because you didn't program them, but in the Charter (hybrid) file they should work. The only thought that comes to mind is that the hybrid upgrades use the NEC1-f16 Official protocol, which isn't really the right one for this application, the NEC 4Dev Combo would be a much better choice.

The upgrade below is a modified version of the Charter (hybrid) file, only using the NEC 4Dev Combo instead. See if this works.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=26952

I'm still not clear on WHY you need to combine the two codes to work the Emerson NH303UD as I would expect an upgrade using a pure NEC1 132.224 signal should work. You say the DVD and TV are in different rooms, so you shouldn't need to program both of them into a single remote, is there? Or do you keep moving the remotes from room to room?

Yes. The remotes move from room to room.

That is an improvement. The unshifted keys worked perfectly. The three shifted keys retained their correct OBCs but had garbage device nos. and did not show up in Key Moves.

I was able to get everything working by removing the shifted keys.

Is that combo upgrade something I can do?

SysTech_Larry wrote:Is that combo upgrade something I can do?

Absolutely. I can tell that you created the original upgrade automatically, which is a nice feature in RMIR, but it's not perfect. In this case the NEC 4Dev Combo is a better choice as you don't have any NEC-f16 signals.

Just FYI, in normal NEC signals, there are 4 bytes:
* device code
* sub-device code
* OBC
* OBC complement

You don't need to specify the OBC complement because the executor will take care of it for you. But in NEC-f16 signals, the OBC isn't the complement, so you need to specify it.

If you look at your upgrade, you'll notice that both OBC1 and OBC2 are specified, but if you look even closer you'll notice that OBC1+OBC2=255 which means that OBC2 *is* the complement of OBC1, so a normal NEC executor will do.

As you need to combine two different codes where both the device code and sub-device are different, so the NEC 4Dev is the one to choose.

In order to do it yourself, rather than having RMIR build the upgrade from your learns, you need to create the upgrade manually. Read the Wiki if you don't know how. Take a look at the one that I built to see how I did it.

Regarding the shifted buttons, which are setup using keymoves, do any of the shifted buttons for your other devices work? I'm just trying to gauge whether keymoves work in this remote? Assuming that they do for your other devices, that implies it has a problem using keymoves from combo devices. So, I have re-created the 3 shift buttons manually using the native setup codes (ie, TV/1864 and TV/1963). I have re-loaded the file, same URL as before.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=26952

The shifted key moves have only failed with combos (on both URCs).

If I change an already-populated auto-combo upgrade, will it do the conversion for me?

Also, the Toshiba VCR/DVD upgrade, http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5241 , did not include a subdevice no. I know what it is. Would adding it make any difference?

SysTech_Larry wrote:The shifted key moves have only failed with combos (on both URCs).

Looks like we'll need to do some sort of modification to the RDF to reflect that.

So how was my version 3 file, did the shifted keymoves work in that?

SysTech_Larry wrote:If I change an already-populated auto-combo upgrade, will it do the conversion for me?

The "it" in this case is you. As I was describing earlier, it would benefit you to gain some understanding of how to create an upgrade file. The Wiki is our best effort at explaining it. The way I converted your upgrade was to copy the relevant data from the Functions tab over to a spreadsheet, then I changed the executor to the 4Dev version (which blanks out all the codes in the Functions tab) and then re-populated them using the values that I had saved in the spreadsheet.

SysTech_Larry wrote:Also, the Toshiba VCR/DVD upgrade, http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5241 , did not include a subdevice no. I know what it is. Would adding it make any difference?

When I explained the bit earlier about the 4 bytes, I neglected to mention the early origins of the device code, because both of your devices have sub-device codes. But in the early days, the 2nd byte of data was the complement of the device code. This eventually got replaced with the sub-device code when they ran out of device codes. If you think you know what the sub-device code is, given that the device code is 69, I bet you think the sub-device is 186 (because 255-69=186). The original learned signal decoder (DecodeIR) translates such learns without a sub-device, but the more recent IrTransDemogifier always gives a sub-device code, even when one is not needed.

The key moves in version 3 only repeated the previous key press. I have not tested it on the 3660, but I have seen that problem before, only on the Charter URC.

SysTech_Larry wrote:The key moves in version 3 only repeated the previous key press. I have not tested it on the 3660, but I have seen that problem before, only on the Charter URC.

What does "repeated the previous key press" mean? Do you mean that, if you press POWER, for example, and then press shift-MENU, it will send POWER again?

You say the other keymoves all work, and they're all shifted, so that seems to imply that the Shift feature does work. Your DVD keymoves are all using an upgrade that uses NEC1, so in theory the ones that I added should work, the only difference is that they're using built in setup codes rather than upgrades.