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JP1 help update - Site wiki?
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stangbat



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 58
Location: KC

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capn Trips wrote:
Well, somewhere near the top of this thread, you described a situation in which you were setting up LKPs using hex commands, indicating that you had the wrong RDFs selected for the extended IR image, and were not getting the Special Protocols Functions tab activated in IR.

I'm not sure how you got there, and am trying to figure it out. The latest RDFs are "usually" in the latest RDF distribution zip file, except for relatively new extenders, so if you used the RDF from the extender zip file which is indeed likely dated, then no amount of read-me's or FAQ's or Wikis would have helped.

I know this is kind of off the subject of this topic, but to help clarify how the confustion started, here is what I think happened.

I think the discussion you are referring to was in my LKP thread here:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=88359#88359
What I may have done was build the extender with the RDF from 8910ex1_1.zip, but when I started trying to do these updates I was using one of the RDFs for the better pause protocol extender found in 8910ex1_2.zip. But honestly, I'm not 100% sure what was going on.

After reviewing that other thread and looking over the readme again, I see why I was confused. The first mention of the tab was when you were trying to help figure out how I was trying to set up the functions. You mentioned a "Special Functions" tab. This was after Vicky updated my IR file. When reviewing her modifications, I noticed her entries on the Special Protocols tab (after it showed up) and started to realize what was going on and what you (and everyone else) were talking about. The lights came on! Very Happy

Clear as mud? Surprised If not, don't worry. Laughing

Capn Trips wrote:
I've updated the extender FAQ thread to include a paragraph (6a) which attempt to illuminate the Special Protocols uses and application. Improvements are invited.

That looks great, thanks! The definitions will be very helpful and it is nice to have them in that FAQ. Multiplexing was the main thing I had to search for as it wasn't in the 8910 extender readme and I wasn't sure what people were referring to in some other threads I'd been reading.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I converted IRHELP.hlp to IRHELP.PDF, see if you can read chapter 4 in this mode.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=8629
I'll look forward to reading your wiki when its up.
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stangbat



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
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Location: KC

PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
I converted IRHELP.hlp to IRHELP.PDF, see if you can read chapter 4 in this mode.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=8629
I'll look forward to reading your wiki when its up.


Thanks for converting the file.

As for the wiki, I'll help move material to it, update it, and submit new content. But I don't have the knowledge or experience to set one up from the software and server aspect. Plus I'd think Rob would want to have oversight if it is affiliated with this site. Otherwise it is just some dude's JP1 wiki that would probably flounder and die.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it was a good exercise for me. I wanted to learn how to use Acrobat with those side indexes for a long time.

IRHelp was something that I started and never finished, since I lost momentum. Since posting that PDF I've been motivated to update IRHelp. I've taken Chapter 1 and converted it from the hodgepadge of notes into a coherant document and updated a bunch of stuff that has changed since I started.

I hope to have an update sometime this week.
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xnappo
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stangbat wrote:


As for the wiki, I'll help move material to it, update it, and submit new content. But I don't have the knowledge or experience to set one up from the software and server aspect. Plus I'd think Rob would want to have oversight if it is affiliated with this site. Otherwise it is just some dude's JP1 wiki that would probably flounder and die.


Rob - you mentioned something about moving to a new server. Do you know if the new one has Wiki hosting built-in?

If not, I thinking using the Sourceforge Wiki is the easiest way to go(assuming there really is some momentum to do a Wiki).

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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All my other sites are on Go Daddy, this is the only site still on this old iPower server, I don't know if Go Daddy has wiki built in, but even if it doesn't, I doubt that it's that hard to set up.

The only reason that I haven't moved it yet is because I don't know how to copy the databases over. The iPower backup format is not compatible with Go Daddy, so I tried creating an SQL file but it didn't work.

If anyone would like to help, let me know. If I can get it done this month, it will save me another year of dual hosting fees.
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eferz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is good that you all have considered opening up a Wiki for JP1. Personally, I think they're a great documentation tool for ever evolving projects and tools like the ones that you've all been working with here. However, instead of trying to host yourself on your own server. You might consider hosting from http://www.wikia.com/. That way you don't have to worry storing images on a separate site like imageshack, as we have to do for these forums.

I started putting together a wiki for the Slingbox at http://slingbox.wikia.com. It's pretty bare right now but I have rewritten Alan's "Guide to Custom Remote Controls" document as one of the articles. However, as I was transcribing it, I realized it has various amounts of information for several different tools. The information was inconsistent and varied from the esoteric to the generic.

While reading the guide, I started to think certain parts of the documentation wasn't as relevant to the process. Some parts would have been better served if it referred to different sections of separate documentation which was more specific to the tool. Then I started to think, I can make this guide more palatable if I took some sections out and referred to the JP1 documentation. However, I then come to understand why Alan wrote the documentation in that manner.

It appears the documentation for the many JP1 tools is contained within different niches of electronic documentation all over the site. From Windows .hlp files, to Adobe .PDFs, forum posts, and even private discussions. It would takes a lot of moxie for someone new to overcome challenges in finding the current and relevant information. So, I was going to start writing Wiki manuals for the different JP1 tools to serve as a foundation for Alan's guide. The idea is to lay the tool manuals as a foundation to better serve shorter project orientated how-to guides. Much similar to the wiki on Sorceforge which Greg recently put up for the recent implementations for RMIR.

Now that I realized you were toying with the idea but didn't know how to get it started. Maybe I can help you, help me. That way we can get the information in a single reference point, have it available to anybody with a web browser, and more importantly get the subject matter experts involved. I'd be wiling to donate my free time in order to get this going. After all, I was going to do it anyways.

It would be easy to get started. I would recommend someone to volunteer to be the wiki's overseer. That person should have a well rounded and have a diverse knowledge of the subject matter. Effectively they would be the one with the most ability to roll back or delete any changes of the wiki. From seeing the posts here, I think Rob would probably be best suited for this role. It ridiculously easy too, go to http://www.wikia.com click on the "create a wiki" pick a name, put some description, chose a layout theme, and *BAM* new wiki.

We can then have the subject matter experts come in an create the article primers. Also easy to do; perform a search in the wiki and opt to create an article and save it. For example, have Greg create an article called "Remote Master Manual". Then I could come in, write out an outline then slowly fill in the information. As the project evolves different people can add or subtract information. Then Greg would be the overseer for article, so he can review and modify the changes from the reports. Once we have the foundation in place, then project orientated articles could easily be written and the wiki can blossom.

The idea is to plant the seed and watch the community help it grow from a sprouting to huge tree with hundreds of branches enveloping the wealth of information related to JP1.

My 2 cents anyways.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have gone ahead and installed a wiki on this site, so it's all yours...
http://hifi-remote.com/wiki/
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eferz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
I have gone ahead and installed a wiki on this site, so it's all yours...
http://hifi-remote.com/wiki/


Excellent, as I was getting started. I noticed that the uploads are disabled.
Quote:

Uploads disabled
From JP1 Remote Control System
Jump to: navigation, search

File uploads are disabled on this wiki.


Would you mind enabling it? Here's the instructions http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Upload
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Earl, I just flipped the switch. Let me know if there are any other settings that need to be changed.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After an initial burst of activity by Earl (above), the wiki site has been dormant, but it still requires maintenance as the spambots keep vandalizing the site.

So, does anyone here intend to use it or should I shut it down?

Personally, I think it would be a good idea to copy all of our various beginner type documentation over there, just to have it on one place.

Thoughts?
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see you put a new wiki, icon at the top of the page. That might drive more than bot traffic there.

I do really like the look and feel that EARL got in his RM guide.

I don't understand the wiki idea. I understand its kind of a help document that can be created and edited by the members (or spammers). I know that some of the help documents are a bit out of date. I just don't understand how the wiki is improvement to the beginner's readme thread that we already have. Unless this can all be updated.

My problem with the beginner documents was there were so many of them, and there wasn't a beginning-to-end guide. So I wrote my little document that starts where I wanted to start, and it ended up being 108 pages and its just an overview! Its more or less, here's your remote, and this is what it can do out of the box. Here's how our tools can help. I haven't gotten into anything technical. I wrote this in HTML so that if I wanted I could add it to the wiki, but its so LONG, even if its divided up into chapters, and then there is still the problem of how to find what you are looking for. I'd like to move the souce back to word doc, so that I had better page control, but I'm still keeping it HTM, in case I go this way. With the PDF you can search all the chapters and you can have it read out loud to you, if you can get past KM being read as kilometers Laughing I have previously zipped it and stored it here in the file section but I have temporarily set it up on my website. IRHelp to see how it looks. Its my understanding though that the PDF format can't be read by our linux friends. Is that correct?
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Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wiki would be helpful if we can get all of the documentation moved over there. I think the main problem that newbies have is knowing which docs to read, assuming they can find them in the first place.

I was just reading the Capn's Extender FAQ today, and that's a perfect example of something that could be ported over to the wiki.

Plus, in the future, as newbie's come along, rather than us asking them how the docs could be improved, they can just improve them themselves.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:

I was just reading the Capn's Extender FAQ today, and that's a perfect example of something that could be ported over to the wiki.


I read that too because the thread was bumped. I wonder how often I'd go over and read the wiki, just to read the wiki, if it was already wordy.

I do miss that the capn doesn't post as often as he used to, because his signature put the help documents right in your face over and over. That seems to be his agenda, educating users. My signature reflects my agenda too, feedback and upgrades.

Quote:


Plus, in the future, as newbie's come along, rather than us asking them how the docs could be improved, they can just improve them themselves.


You think newbies are going to get better over time, Surprised . Oh I do sound b****y today.
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:22 pm    Post subject: Horrors Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:

I do miss that the capn doesn't post as often as he used to, because his signature put the help documents right in your face over and over. That seems to be his agenda, educating users.
You give me too much credit for having an altruistic purpose. I put those links in my sig to try to reduce the number of questions that despite our best efforts, tempt us to say "Read the !@#$%^& readme, ferchrissake!" Since I have far less patience than most of you guys, and it frequently gets me at cross purposes with the whole "there is no stupid question" and "trying to be helpful" thing.

I remember to this day the immortal words of my 10th grade English teacher, the long-gone Joe McHale at Cheektowaga Central High School, who told us on day 1 of his class:
"There ARE such things as stupid questions, and I reserve the right to point out when you ask one."

As I continue to digress in this response, I'd say there are several reasons I do not post as much as in the past.

(1) I have my own HT system set up pretty much in a stable long-term configuration. (Of course some idiot had to go and invent 3D TV now!) Am happy with my Extended OCAP in my secondary location and with my Harmony ONE in my primary (I'm STILL procrastinating on setting up my AR XSight Touch, which I like better than the Harmony. The Harmony macros are very slow, whilst the AR (UEIC) remote's are much faster.) But neither does as consistent a job of doing EXACTLY what I want as the OCAP - but I simply cannot stack up 10 devices on the OCAP, so the Harmony it is, for now.

(2) Secondly, I retired from the Navy after 30 years as a submarine officer (and captain) exactly a year ago, and find myself MUCH busier than I ever was when I was serving full-time (and then some) in the Navy. Various volunteer works with our kids' local school, scouts, church, and I'm juggling more stuff than ever before. Hence, somewhat counterintuitively I find myself with less discretionary time to respond and post.

(3) Finally, and I cannot make this sound non-snooty, but I find that question like "What's the code for ...?" hold little interest for me and take more time to answer (actually looking up stuff? Horrors!) than I am willing to devote. It's great that there are so many of you out there who do that. It keeps this forum relevant. I do remain interested in the PROCESSES of JP1 and it is in those types of areas that I tend to jump in - I prefer teaching a man to fish rather than giving him a fish - and in the evolution of the tools.

Hmmm... after reading what I just wrote, perhaps I AM altruistic, in my own selfish way. Twisted Evil

(P.S. By the way, have we ever sorted out the problem of DecodeIR decoding Sharp DVD player remote commands as Kaseikyo, and that although one can set up a Kaseikyo upgrade to do what one wants, it more often than not requires a protocol upgrade, whilst the built-in "Sharp DVD" executor is almost always more efficient to use? Those who have been around a while will remember my rants about how DecodeIR should "properly" decode those signals as "SharpDVD" instead of "Kaseikyo")
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Remotes:Atlas OCAP URC 1056, Harmony One, OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: Panasonic TH-50PE700U; LG 65" Smart LED TV; RCVR: Pioneer VSX-D2016S;Onkyo TX-SR875
DVD/VCR: LG Blu-Ray player, Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A1 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
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Streaming: Intel NUC PC
(But I still have to get up for my beer)
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