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An easy-to-use Working Yamaha RX Upgrade

 
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ve3lnc



Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:38 am    Post subject: An easy-to-use Working Yamaha RX Upgrade Reply with quote

This is not a request for info, but a possible solution to all those people who are seeking how to include their Yamaha home theater amp or receiver on their cable/pvr remote.

I have built an upgrade that allows users to easily change this upgrade to their configuration using Remote Master then using IR.exe to load it onto their remote.

Because the Yamaha has so many features and a rather large remote, I deceided to make the Atlas or RCA remotes easy to use in a mixed audio/video environment rather than incorporate all of the Yamaha functionality.

So, what I did was to use the numer buttons in the following way:

Row 1 (ie 1 thru 3) selects your Video sources

In my case that was HDMI1 (CBL) and HDMI2 (DVD). Using Remote Master you can easily change these to whatever Video sources that you have.

Row 2 (ie 4 thru 6) selects your Audio sources

In my case that was a mixed bag of a Tuner, Audio 2 (my CD player), and AV2 (my squeezebox). Using Remote Master you can easily change these to whatever Audio sources that you have.

The Up/Down buttons are used to select Tuner presets, and the Left/Right buttons do manual tuning if needed.

And on the ABCD colored keys I put various presets for theater accoustics.

All of these can easily be changed to suit your preferences. And of course, the power button toggles the Yamaha power key.

While it isn't perfect, it was made easy to use for newbies like me. And it seems to work well with a number of different Yamaha home theater setups.

the upgrade is at:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=9183

As a newbie, I also had lots to learn on how to move the upgrade from Remote Master to IR.exe, but that is well covered in other articles, particularly Vicky's excellent guide at http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=8629.

And I am indebted to those who did the work that this upgrade relies on, particularly Rob's upload at http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=8740.

Steve
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations Steve. Three upgrades in your 1 month membership makes you a valuable contributor to the forums, and getting the yamaha sorted out is a big accomplishment.
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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3FG
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve,
Thanks for setting up this upgrade.

I do have a couple of suggestions. (Of course it is your upgrade, so it's up to you if you want to act on these.)

1) I think the Yamaha RX-V765 is a AV receiver, and so by convention we usually put these upgrades into the Audio file section. The Combo Audio section is usually used for systems which have a DVD or other component in the same package. Frequently Yamaha uses the AV receiver electronic modules in their HTIB systems, and so sometimes upgrades can be used for either type. But I think this upgrade belongs in Audio.

2) I'd like you to consider changing away from "Manual Settings". This is a kind of a hot button for me, because I find the descriptions under Manual Settings to be difficult to understand. As it happens, RM and RMIR were recently upgraded to provide (IMO) an easier to understand approach to these newer Yamaha IR protocols. We now have available an user interface to the executor you've employed in your upgrade (now termed the NEC 4DEV Yamaha Combo executor), and using that interface allows one to have an upgrade that doesn't need the upgrade notes, or individual notes for each function. Here is an upgrade adapted from yours which uses the newer approach. If you're willing, I'd like you to try it and see if it functions the same as yours. If it does, then please load it to the Audio file section.

BTW, I converted the upgrade by opening two instances of RM, and loading your upgrade into each. In one instance I changed the Protocol from Manual Settings to NEC 4DEV Yamaha Combo, and entered in the three device numbers. Then I marked the entire Hex column in the original upgrade, copied (Ctrl-C) the column and pasted it into the Hex column in the modified upgrade. I visually checked that the various columns were correct, deleted the upgrade notes, and function notes, and saved it. This approach works, because the executor in both cases is the same and so the required Hex data is unchanged.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an alternative suggestion for how to place input select buttons. My personal preference is to set aside one button on the remote to be the all purpose input select button. If your remote has any learning or macro buttons, these would be prime candidates (I use the "1S" button on a 15-1994).

Then, in each device mode, program the appropriate input select function to this button. For example, in DVD mode, the button should select the DVD input on your a/v receiver. If you have the same problem with your TV, you could pick another button to be the TV input select button.
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ve3lnc



Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This particular box has 4 HDMI inputs, 4 audio inputs, digital/optical inputs, etc. Most people using this box could not accomodate their inputs using the device buttons at the top, myself included. Good idea to simplify it though, for people who have fewer devices.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you have connected to all those inputs? If they are devices that are controlled by the remote, you can use my suggestion.

The trick is to think of the remote in terms of activities rather than devices. The TV and the stereo are typically just a means of using other devices. In other words, you don't typically "watch TV" anymore, you're more likely to use the TV to watch a DVD, or your Cable TV or your SAT TV, etc. Likewise, you don't typically listen to the stereo, you use it to listen to the TV, or your CD player, etc.

So, when programming the remote to work your DVD player, for example, if you have the sound running through the stereo, you should program the volume buttons to work the stereo. If you have the sound running through the TV, they should work the TV. As I explained earlier, my recommendation would be to set aside a single button that will always select the right input on the stereo and another to select the right input on the TV. I would also recommend programming a macro that turns everything on and selects the right inputs. Personally, I would put this macro on the shifted DVD device button, but another option is a LKP on the DVD device button.

Following this approach, you may find that some of your devices get totally absorbed into the setup for other devices. For example, I have a video selector in my setup that doesn't have it's own device button on my remote, it's totally absorbed into all the other device modes. My CD player and a/v receiver share a device button, even though they're different brands, as they don't have any common buttons.
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ve3lnc



Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I have a couple of comments here.

First of all you folks (Rob and 3FG) have been at this many many years so all of this stuff is second nature to you.

But let me give you my impression of being a member less than three weeks. I have found the process frustrating. An example is by suggesting to use LKP. It would have helped to use Long Key Press rather than LKP for us poor souls struggling with implementing this technology. But there is a glossary so . . . So, i do a search on Long Key Press. 410 Results. What is missing from this forum (as a newbie to JP1) is a strict "How To Do This" thread. There are so many threads with so little information.

I finally did find this info in Vicky's excellent IR help document, but shouldn't that be a siticky right near the top for beginners?

I used manual protocol (much to 3FG's chagrin) because when I open my update in RM it actual loads with no error messages. When I use his upgrade, it has an error message of no such protocol. You may know where the protocol can be gotten from, and how to load it into RM and IS, but I sure as heck cannot find that info. I am not a programming newbie - I have been a programmer for many many years but I am a JP1 newbie and finding hard core documentation is hard to come by.

This is not a rant and rave, but asking you experts to to be mindful of us newbies who appreciate your fine work, but sure wish things were easier to find and use. Maybe any thread over 1 year old should be dropped so that the meat is left behind.

The reference to an executor is 4 pages long with many threads. How about a "How To".

So let's try this again. 1. How do I use 3FG's upgrade. 2. How can I do a search that will tell me how to do things, rather than endless threads that lead to dead ends.

And really, I would like to NOT use LKP, but it makes sense that when any device button is pressed, then the Yamaha box should select the right input. Except of course, the RF controlled devices that I have (Oh well). Can this be done for the IR devices?

Also, would you be so kind to point me to the exact thread where the JP1 interface is discussed particularly the driver interfaces, etc. Also discussing macros, so that I can turn on the Yamaha box (and any other appropriate devices) when a device is powered up.

Steve
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3FG
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve,

I found out about UEI remotes and JP1 remotes about 18 months ago, so I remember fairly well how frustrating it is to get a handle on everything. That said, consider that none of us are doing this for a living, and it is the nature of a enthusiast community that knowledge and activities are fragmented.

The easiest way to get the Yamaha protocol is to download RMIR 2.00, but that only became available a few days ago. Prior to that, I wrote how to get it in the 4th post of your thread on the 765

From my point of view, the old threads can be very valuable, and getting rid of ones older than a year would be a very big loss. But threads and search results are arranged chronologically, so you can easily ignore anything older than a year.
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ve3lnc



Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just downloaded the latest version of RM (2.00) - what a difference a few days make! That jump from 1.99 to 2.00 is a hell of a gap.

So I will now test your updated upgrade and see how it goes and let you know shortly.

thanks,

Steve
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve,

I thought we had a kind of best practices thread a few years ago, but I can't find it, so here goes:

IMO, you should avoid hijacking the primary Device buttons with macros. Otherwise you have no way to simply pick a different device mode on your remote without a lot of other, possibly unwanted, stuff happening. So my advice is leave the device buttons as is. I see posts from time to time where people want to put macros or key moves on the device buttons, and it always leaves me scratching my head.

If you don't have an extender, put your activity macros on the shifted device buttons. For example DVD simply puts the remote in DVD mode like it normally would. But shift-DVD would run the macro that turns on your yamaha, tv, and DVD/Blu-ray player and sets the yahama and tv to the right inputs. If you have an extender the LKP or Double Key Press is a good alternative to shift.

If you are familiar with harmony, I try to follow a similar paradigm. Device buttons pick different devices modes on the remote, period, without sending any commands. Shifted or LKP/DKP Device buttons run activities. Master power off for all devices goes on the Shifted or LKP/DKP Power button if possible. Use discrete power commands whenever possible or toadtogs for state tracking when discretes aren't available.

As for finding the right threads for your questions, I don't have a good answer. The contents of macros don't get much discussion since that's usually pretty straight forward. I know you're tired of hearing "just ask", but that's really the best way. So keep the questions coming and we'll do our best.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mentioned just the other day, that I was sobbing when I went through the learning process for the second time. So I definately know how frustrating the learning process can be. And you've come a long way since you started. I think the mastering a yamaha upgrade is a huge accomplishment, especially since the tools are just now evolving to handle it.

Now that you have all the functions for your equipment, you can rest, or you can tackle the next big learning hurdle. Extenders. Extenders usually come bundled with special protocols that enhance your jp1 experience. The LKP (Long key press) is a very intuitive way to handle device selection. There are a few remotes (urc-8820, 10820, 8820N and 10820N) that offer LKP without needing to use an extender or a special protocol.
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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ve3lnc



Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The upgrade from 3FG worked. I will update my file (with kudos) at http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=9183.

More changes to come. Thanks to 3FG.
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3FG
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve,
It's not my upgrade-- I'm just touting it!
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Capn Trips
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3959

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ve3lnc wrote:
Well, I have a couple of comments here.

First of all you folks (Rob and 3FG) have been at this many many years so all of this stuff is second nature to you.

But let me give you my impression of being a member less than three weeks. I have found the process frustrating. An example is by suggesting to use LKP. It would have helped to use Long Key Press rather than LKP for us poor souls struggling with implementing this technology. But there is a glossary so . . . So, i do a search on Long Key Press. 410 Results. What is missing from this forum (as a newbie to JP1) is a strict "How To Do This" thread. There are so many threads with so little information.

I finally did find this info in Vicky's excellent IR help document, but shouldn't that be a siticky right near the top for beginners?

I used manual protocol (much to 3FG's chagrin) because when I open my update in RM it actual loads with no error messages. When I use his upgrade, it has an error message of no such protocol. You may know where the protocol can be gotten from, and how to load it into RM and IS, but I sure as heck cannot find that info. I am not a programming newbie - I have been a programmer for many many years but I am a JP1 newbie and finding hard core documentation is hard to come by.

This is not a rant and rave, but asking you experts to to be mindful of us newbies who appreciate your fine work, but sure wish things were easier to find and use. Maybe any thread over 1 year old should be dropped so that the meat is left behind.

The reference to an executor is 4 pages long with many threads. How about a "How To".

So let's try this again. 1. How do I use 3FG's upgrade. 2. How can I do a search that will tell me how to do things, rather than endless threads that lead to dead ends.

And really, I would like to NOT use LKP, but it makes sense that when any device button is pressed, then the Yamaha box should select the right input. Except of course, the RF controlled devices that I have (Oh well). Can this be done for the IR devices?

Also, would you be so kind to point me to the exact thread where the JP1 interface is discussed particularly the driver interfaces, etc. Also discussing macros, so that I can turn on the Yamaha box (and any other appropriate devices) when a device is powered up.

Steve
Your comments make me scratch my head a bit. Although I have not been as active on this forum as I have at other times, I still keep track of what's going on, to keep my JP1 tools up-to-date, and pipe up occasionally when I believe that I have something to contribute.

It seems to be sort of a cyclical deal every several months where somebody new comes in and becomes a pretty active member and comments about the inability to find various info here as a newcomer. I scratch my head because at the very top of the Beginners' Forum, prominently highlighted as an "Announcement:" is a little thread titled "Beginner's - PLEASE read this thread first!" (or something like that).

Therein can be found links to several help documents and files and "Getting started" guides that over the years (I guess nigh-on 10 of them by now?!) have been developed and tweaked. There used to be fewer of them, but seemingly every couple of years a new arrival found what existed for whatever reason inadequate, and has tried to write his/her own new and improved one, and all have found a home here and are linked in that thread. Were those guides somehow inadequate? ...and if so, now that you are somewhat "past" the "newbie" experience, how?

Perhaps your fresh perspective can be hi-jacked by us to help review that beginners' thread and identify which of those documents and files you found/find confusing, obfuscating, or generally unhelpful, and which ones are indeed useful. As a next level, perhaps you could suggest some alternative wordings, sequencing, organization of that information to make it more accessible to the newcomer?

You are correct that the people who have been here for years are too close to the issue and probably have great difficulty putting themselves into the shoes of a new arrival, although we were all "newbies" once (except for Robman, who is seemingly as old as Methuselah insofar as this forum is concerned!). So help us figure out how to make it better.

Those help documents were written at the cost of quite a bit of uncompensated time, and I would expect that the authors' only satisfaction is if they are useful. If they are NOT, then help identify how to make them so.

Thanks.
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Remotes:Atlas OCAP URC 1056, Harmony One, OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: Panasonic TH-50PE700U; LG 65" Smart LED TV; RCVR: Pioneer VSX-D2016S;Onkyo TX-SR875
DVD/VCR: LG Blu-Ray player, Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A1 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc/CD changer: Pioneer CLD-704.
Streaming: Intel NUC PC
(But I still have to get up for my beer)
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