Learned/programmed button functions...sort of...help?

insaneoctane · Post by **insaneoctane** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:39 pm

I learned a command from my original remote and it works, sort of.
The button in question is an input selction button.
On the original remote, it toggles between AUX and DI, which are two different inputs on the receiver. The original remote has one button labeled "AUX/DI". Now I learned this remote on URC-8820 and it correctly switches the receiver to "AUX" mode, but will NOT toggle it to "DI" mode like the original remote does. I've pushed it a thousand times and it doesn't want to change from "AUX" to "DI"....what can I do to discover the difference between the original and my learned version? Can I try to learn it differently (I followed the directions by holding down the source during learning)?
PS- Here is the command from IR.exe:
DecodeIR
Protocol=RC6/Device=21/Sub Device=<blank>/OBC=63/Hex=3F/EFC=187/Misc="T=1"

-or-

ExchangeIR
{36.2k,445,msb}<-1,1|1,-1>(6,-2,A:4,<-2,2|2,-2>(B:1),C:16,-82.7m)+{A=$8,B=$1,C=$153F}

Thanks
(edited codes that were incorrect)

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:40 am

That protocol uses a "toggle bit", and your receiver will not respond to two successive commands using the same toggle bit, which makes it problematic to use a LEARNED signal. If you use that decode information to make an upgrade and code that function properly, the toggling will occur properly and it should work.

Try this test. Send your learned "Aux/DI" command, then send a DIFFERENT command to your receiver, then try the "Aux/DI" command again. Does it work the second time?

insaneoctane · Post by **insaneoctane** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:32 am

Capn Trips wrote: Try this test. Send your learned "Aux/DI" command, then send a DIFFERENT command to your receiver, then try the "Aux/DI" command again. Does it work the second time?

I don't think that test will work because of the way the receiver works with the original remote. Specifically the mode always goes to aux first and di second. Unless a non mode button can be used for the "different" command?

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:51 am

What would happen if, using the OEM remote, you pressed the following buttons:

1) AUX/DI
2) VOL+
3) AUX/DI

our expectation is that the following would happen:

1) switch to AUX
2) volume increases
3) switch to DI

Here's another experiment that you can do. Learn the AUX/DI button to two separate buttons on your learning remote, then try button1 followed by button2. Our expectation is that the first button would switch to AUX and the second would switch to DI.

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:13 am

insaneoctane wrote:
Capn Trips wrote: Try this test. Send your learned "Aux/DI" command, then send a DIFFERENT command to your receiver, then try the "Aux/DI" command again. Does it work the second time?
I don't think that test will work because of the way the receiver works with the original remote. Specifically the mode always goes to aux first and di second. Unless a non mode button can be used for the "different" command?

Different means "different" - i.e. NOT the "Aux/DI" command. It doesn't matter what. Vol + or -, Mute, Exit, ANYTHING other than "Aux/DI"

insaneoctane · Post by **insaneoctane** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:14 pm

Thanks for the replies.
I understand the "tests" and will try tonight!

insaneoctane · Post by **insaneoctane** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:49 pm

You guys were spot on.
When I hit another key (ie Volume+) it then toggles....so now what?

By the way, I think I know one solutuion (by accident)...
I found a key-combo that I had done a couple years ago using RM and upgrade codes and crazy voodoo magic with the following properties:
PROTOCOL=RC6
DEVICE=21
SUB_DEV=<blank>
OBC=63
HEX CMD=3F F9
EFC=187

Coincidentally, it is the toggle button I just learned (but toggles properly!), notice the Hex cmd has a F9 on the end? I'm sure that's related to what you guys were having me do with the "other key" thing. Anyway I can't read the MATRIX code yet, so this is still confusing to me, but I think I can just use this upgraded custom code as a means to my end....but if you want to suggest what I would change in my "learned" command to make it toggle, that would be great- especially since I can save these "learned" commands into my learning memory space on my ATLAS (even though it's not a learning remote!).

PS-Oops, the codes in my ORIGINAL msg were wrong! I fixed them.
I had copies the wrong button, sorry....

underquark · Post by **underquark** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:03 am

The original remote sends something like SIGNAL-0 and then if you release and press that button again - without pressing any other buttons in-between - it sends SIGNAL-1. The 0 and the 1 are the toggle-bits. Your device expects this in order to function correctly. It is a FEATURE of RC-6 and other remote control code protocols.

Now, when you learn a signal you only capture either SIGNAL-0 or SIGNAL-1. It doesn't matter how many times you press the button with the learned signal, it only sends out the same signal (with either 0 or 1 at the end) each time and it can't toggle.

You could press the original button and learn it and then press again and learn to another key but even this wouldn't work perfectly. Your best bet is to create an upgrade - using all the buttons - for your device and then when you press the key using an upgrade the remote will sort out the toggle-bits for you.

insaneoctane · Post by **insaneoctane** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:39 am

If I create an upgrade instead of using the learned command would the hex command of 3f work? Again the upgrade I already have that toggles the aux/di button shows HEX CMD=3F F9. Unless that f9 is unnecessary I wouldn't have known about it by looking at the learned command! Thanks for the replies.

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:25 am

If you build the upgrade using the decoded data from the learned signal panel in IR or RMIR the device upgrade (and protocol upgrade if required) will ensure that the signal is correctly generated. You need not bother with parsing the hex, just use the decoded Protocol, device, sub-device (if any), param(if any) and OBC.

insaneoctane · Post by **insaneoctane** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:24 pm

Ok. Thanks. Last piece to my puzzle... If my original remote has more than 3 different "device" codes under the Rc6 protocol - do I need to create an upgrade for every 3 devices? For example if I learn 10 buttons off my original remote and then look at them in ir.exe and they all are rc6 but 5 unique "device" codes. When I create an upgrade code using rc5/6 combo I can enter up to 3 devices, but if 3 have 5 unique devices I would have to create 2 upgrade codes to accommodate my 5 devices? Just making sure I'm thinking this through correctly. Thanks again

Post by **The Robman** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:46 pm

Let's cross that bridge when we get to it. For now, just learn all of the buttons and post the IR file so we can see what you've got.

insaneoctane · Post by **insaneoctane** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:17 pm

Okay, here's my original buttons (the only ones I need):
BUTTON/PROTOCOL/DEVICE/OBC/EFC
=========================
KEY=AUX-DI/PROTO=RC6/DEV=21/OBC=63/EFC=187
KEY=TV/PROTO=RC6/DEV=0/OBC=63/EFC=187
KEY=DVD/PROTO=RC6/DEV=4/OBC=63/EFC=187
KEY=VOL+/PROTO=RC6/DEV=16/OBC=16/EFC=146
KEY=VOL-/PROTO=RC6/DEV=16/OBC=17/EFC=138
KEY=MUTE/PROTO=RC6/DEV=16/OBC=13/EFC=042
KEY=PWR/PROTO=RC6/DEV=4/OBC=199/EFC=244

So, interestingly enough, I have 4 devices, which is one too many for the R5/R6 combo, so do I have to create two upgrades for this?