Trouble learning from A/C remote

[jrh995]

Hello all,
Pretty new at this. Have made some upgrades from learning and modified some downloaded files. Using a URC-10828 and two Atlas URC-1056 (non-learning) remotes.
Everything seemed fine until I tried to learn from a Sears Kenmore Room Air Condition remote.

A/C Model: 580.76129200
Remote #:6711A20053B

The codes learn good according to the remotes but do not work when I try them.
I have also learned them on other learning remotes I have with the same results.
I have tried as many different ways to learn the commands - short tap-long tap-double tap-tap before pressing learning button, etc. Pretty much every way I have seen to do it on this forum.
Sometimes a learn will have an effect on the A/C but not the expected one. If I have learned the Fan Speed key it will cause the Mode to change from Fan Low to Energy Save Cool high Fan Speed. The next push does nothing. Fan speed should cycle Low-Med-High and back to Low.
IR.exe shows me GAP-542-1635-28? for protocol.
I don't think an upgrade can be made without functioning codes, correct?
Would a tool like Tommy Tyler's IR Widget or a similar IR capture device allow me to make a good learn that I could use for an upgrade even if I had to build the protocol? Not that I know how to do that
Help would be appreciated.
Thanks
John

[The Robman]

Post the IR file that has the learns, just so we can see what they look like, and mention which one sort of works.

[jetskier]

I had experience with learning where the distance between remotes made a difference. You might try within an inch of each other and then a few inches. My experience is a GAP is a bad learn.

The IR widget & the IRScope.exe coupled with DecodeIR.dll make learning a lot faster and easier rather than using IR.exe via downloading the learned buttons.

[jrh995]

Okay Robman here is the link hope this works:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=7109
Not sure what the two *.lnk files are in the zip for, maybe something I had on the remote before.
Edit: A couple of shortcuts got in the zip. Just ignore them.

I relearned all the buttons and tested them. They all do something just not exactly what they are supposed to.
Thanks for your help.


@ jetskier - Thanks for the suggestion. I pretty much tried everything I could think of except an underwater learn

[The Robman]

My experience is a GAP is a bad learn.

That's not a good assumption. A "GAP" learn just means that the JP1 software was unable to recognize the infrared protocol. One possible cause is indeed a bad learn, but just as likely it could have been caused by an un-documented protocol.

Take a look in the Protocol Decodes forum and every thread starts with a file with "bad learns".

[The Robman]

Here's the story. These are all good learns. The fact that they all do something tends to imply that the remote has built-in intelligence and it knows what state the AC is currently in. So, even though from a user perspective, the TEMP-DOWN button should lower the temp by 1 degree, what it really does is send a signal to the AC telling it exactly what temp to set itself too. If you were to press it again, it would send a different signal with a different temp encoded.

Therefore, what you need to do is learn each button several times, with the expectation that each signal will be different. How many temp settings are on the AC? If there are 10, then you should learn the TEMP-DOWN button no less than 10 times. Ditto for each of the other buttons.

I'm trying to determine what the codes in the signals are, but with a limited sample of just 8 learns it's difficult.

I expect with a complete sample, I should be able to tell you how to format the signals. However, programming this into a universal is going to be tricky because you won't be able to program a TEMP-DOWN button, you would need to program 10 different buttons, one for each temp setting (or you could just pick the 2 or 3 that you use the most).

To replicate a TEMP-DOWN button using a universal would require a complicated protocol that keeps track of the state of the AC.

[jrh995]

Thanks Robman for researching this remote. It is very interesting and I can see where it would be a problem to actually set it up for a universal.
I think I understand what you are saying about it being a different code output needed for each Temp change. That would explain why I would get different resulting functions when I was learning the buttons. The batch I uploaded was actually the best set I have come up with. It seems like an awfully complicated way to design a remote.
I need to do some thinking about how this remote works in relation to what is happening to the AC unit. If I can figure out a pattern in the operation maybe I can learn from a certain starting point and get consistent results.
I seem to remember that if I have pressed some keys on the remote when it is not in range of the AC, when I do press a key when I am in range of the unit it will change the AC to what the remote has changed to. I could be wrong but I will check it out tomorrow.
I just wanted a backup to the OEM remote that I could have available in case it goes bad.
I had that happen to another AC after only 1 year and was able to get the remote working long enough to get a good copy of the codes. It was just a standard coding so it worked fine.
They want $40-$50 for a replacement remote which is crazy.
If I can get enough codes to make it useful it would be worth it to just be able to use a learning remote.
Thanks again for your help,
John

[wnewell]

Hello all,
Remote #:6711A20053B
John

Their AC's look amazingly like GE AC's and your remote model number is exactly the same as mine (6711A20035J) except for the last part. Mine has 6 buttons. Power, Temp + and -, Fan Speed, Timer, and Mode. Here's the upgrade for it. Give it a try.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=6180

Looking at their 10K BTU sinlgle room AC is the exact same remote as I have, except labeled Kenmore istead of GE.

[The Robman]

Hey John,
You shouldn't have any problems learning these signals as the signal itself is very standard looking (in fact, it's quite similar to NEC). I think the reason you thought you were having problems was because the learned signals didn't do what you expected.

Please go ahead and re-learn each button many times, then test your learns and make a note of what each button does (if anything).

Even if you decide that you don't want to include this AC in your universal, I'd still like to capture the signals and create an upgrade for it, for the next person who might have lost their OEM remote.

[jrh995]

Hi wnewell,
Thanks for your upgrade. I tried it but it did not work.
My remote is different than yours with a small LCD screen on it showing Temp-Fan Speed and more.
One of the reasons I wanted an upgrade is due to the fact that the LCD screen is fading out at times, and I am expecting the remote to go totally dead. You don't really need the screen to operate the remote.
Those last few digits on the model number do make a difference.


Robman,
I am in the process of learning all the buttons especially the temp up & down numerous times. I think I really only need the up OR down temps if it sends out the desired actual temp to the AC like you said, but I'll do both.
When I get everything together I will upload the info.

Later,
John

[jrh995]

Hello Robman,
I have successfully learned all the buttons from the remote.
I learned the temps from 65-75 degrees.
All learns work correctly. Not exactly like the OEM remote but pretty close.
Here is the link:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=7118
Ir.exe shows some little change in the temp up and temp down decodings.
Hope this is helpful for an upgrade.

John

[The Robman]

John,
I've created an upgrade with all of the buttons included, just so you can try it out. I've even tried to come up with a sensible button layout based on the buttons on the URC-10820.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=7119

I notice that there were a few buttons where you said that they set the temp to 75, which was where it was set when you learned the buttons. That tends to imply that if you had set the temp to something different, the learned signal would also be different.

If you're up for doing some more learning, could you learn each of those buttons at each of the possible temp settings? I know that's a lot more learning, so don't bother if you don't have time, but it would help me understand the signals more fully.

[jrh995]

Robman,
A bit of a problem on this end. I downloaded your upgrade and found out it is for the Keymap-Master program.
I use Remote Master instead. I never had a reason to buy Microsoft Excel before. I use Open Office for everything I need and it works fine.
When I got into this a couple of weeks ago I thought about buying Excel or the Personal Microsoft Office suite, but I really don't want to spend that much just for one program to use. When I found out that Remote Master would work as well I just didn't bother.
Being new at this I may be unaware if you can convert a KM file to an RM file. If so let me know.
If not I did install the trial version of M$ Office a week ago but I have reimaged my drive to get rid of it. It is good for 60 days so hopefully I could reinstall it to get this upgrade working.
Let me know.
I will begin learning the extra info you requested and upload when done.

John

[gfb107]

http://controlremote.sourceforge.net/Re ... l#filemenu

[dspille]

I believe that RM can open KM *.txt files.