Questions about Keymap Master and the 15-2117

[Ghallo]

I have the 15-2117, and on the Keymap master file it lists buttons like this:

@ phantom1
@ phantom2
@ phantom3
@ phantom4
@ phantom5
@ DiscreteON
@ DiscreteOFF
@ setup
@ light
@ my system


Some of these buttons I can actually see on the remote (Light and My System) but none of the other buttons exist - how do I get access to these buttons on this remote? Is there a "shift" function or some such?

[mr_d_p_gumby]

Some of these buttons I can actually see on the remote (Light and My System) but none of the other buttons exist - how do I get access to these buttons on this remote? Is there a "shift" function or some such?

They are called "phantom" for a reason: the physical buttons do not exist on the remote. They are often useful with macros. If you keymove a command to a phantom button, you can then refer to it from within a macro. The DiscreteOn and DiscreteOff names are often assigned to phantom buttons. They are not special in any way; the naming is just for convenience, since many users put discrete on or off commands on phantom buttons. The "@" symbol in front of the button name tells you that any command placed on the button will be implemented as a key move since the button is not included in the keymap of the currently selected device type.

[ek2116]

Hi,

Sorry if I'm going over past issues, but I'm confused about this point.
I'm working on a device upgrade for my receiver (Denon A/V 3803).
It shows the following keys as "@" keys on the "buttons" tab: sleep,
pip, info, swap, move, +100, freeze. But, my remote (2116) has these keys. Since the keys are physically on the remote, why are they listed
as "@" keys?

Thanks.

[gfb107]

The @ means that the key is not in the button map for the device type you have chosen for your upgrade. This just means that any functions you assign to these buttons will be transferred over to IR as keymoves. You can try different device types to see if you get more of the buttons you want without the @.

The @ does not mean that the button is a phantom button.

There is not real connection between the @ and phantom buttons. The phantom buttons will always have an @ because they are never part of the the default button map for a device mode.

[asinsh]

In KM, you will see a tab called something like "Layout" which tells you which physical buttons can be assigned EFCs through device code upgrades in which modes. In the 2116, you will find that CBL mode allows you to assign more buttons via device upgrade than any other mode. (None of the modes include all of hte buttons, but CBL has the most.) So if the device you are setting up an upgrade for has too many buttons for the mode you think makes sense and you don't like the 'layout' of that mode, you can specify any other mode for the device. For example, I usually specify that every one of my device upgrades is for a CBL device even though some are for a TV or a DVD or a receiver etc., so that I can assign as many functions as possible through a device upgrade. The only downside to this approach is that every device will then show up in the LCD when pressed as 'CBL', but since I don't care what the display says this doesn't bother me.

If you are using a mode for a device upgrade that does not allow you to assign a function to a button directly, you can still assign things to that button using a keymove. And whenever KM refers to a button with an '@' in front of it, that's what it is telling you -- that KM will assign the function to the button that is not available in that mode via a keymove rather than as part of the device upgrade. The drawback to using too many of those kinds of keymoves instead of using a mode that allows you to directly assign more buttons via device upgrade is that keymoves take up much more memory than an upgrade code so you may end up running out of memory if you do this too much.

[ek2116]

Ok thanks for the replies. That clears up the @, but as usual,
more information brings more questions. BTW, I'm using extender2.

If I take your suggestion to the extreme, and say, create
6 CBL devices that run 6 actual components, what will that do
to macros, toadtogs, etc?

Can I create my own button layouts, or are they hard-coded
in the chip?

Eric

[gfb107]

Having 6 cable device upgrades does not cause issues with macros and toad togs.

You cannot create your own button maps.

[asinsh]

...If I take your suggestion to the extreme, and say, create 6 CBL devices that run 6 actual components, what will that do
to macros, toadtogs, etc?...

That won't do anything at all to macros, toadtog, etc. Of course, if you redefine all of the device codes and you do a keymove that calls one of the refined device codes, you need to properly specify the 'device type' of the moved key (in your case, CBL even for, e.g., a dvd player).

...Can I create my own button layouts, or are they hard-coded in the chip?...

Nope, that's something you can't change. I've seen posts from johnsfine (one of the JP1 gurus) to the effect that he isn't sure why the original designers of these remotes dreamed up this limitation at all, but we're stuck with it.

And by the way, if you're already using an extender (as you mentioned), the 2116 extender allows you to redefine what shows up on the LCD when you press a button, so there would inthat event be no downside to using CBL for all of your devices.

[The Robman]

If I take your suggestion to the extreme, and say, create 6 CBL devices that run 6 actual components...

Eric, keep in mind that you are using an LCD remote (the 15-2116), so if you do this, the LCD screen will always say CABLE regardless of which device button you actually pressed, only the setup code numbers will be different.

Maybe that's not a problem, I'm just pointing it out.