Dish Network receiver: ViP211

[TheBudMan]

[EDIT - Rob]split off from this thread:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8065

I hope some of the experts are still following this thread. I hit a bit of a stumbling block when I found that I had a second device, my satellite receiver, that wouldn't respond to the shorter duration signals. So I delved into the custom protocol Jon Armstrong wrote.

Loading it up into the Protocol Builder spreadsheet, I noticed that if I changed the repeat value from its default value of 1 to 3, the 4th byte (and only the 4th byte) "from the end" changed. Running with that, I uploaded the revised protocol into IR, updated the remote, and presto, the TV input selections now work from within macros (without having to be the last command). I also am not getting the double keypresses on the arrow keys that the protocol was designed to prevent, so I'll consider this a success. If I am being naive here, someone please say so.

So, now I'd like to see if I couldn't modify the satellite receiver's protocol in a similar manner. Currently, I'm using the "stock" 0775 code. Does anyone know how to extract (or otherwise obtain) the protocol for a stock setup code?

TIA

[ElizabethD]

Looks like without the expert help you chugging along pretty darn well.
Your interpretation of some of the extender things sound good and simpler than in the official docs.
And the protocol work sounds good too.

Is 0775 for DishNetwork protocol? If so we've had few threads on Dish just recently. For 6131 the repeats slot is there. It looks like 1994 is virtually identical to 6131 I played with except for the last 2 bytes
Can you use the combo protocol? If so, to change #repeats from 2 to 3, change 02 left of 43 8C. Just use KM normally and then tweak it in IR.
Upgrade Protocol 0 = 01 E2 (S3C8) Dish Network Combo (KM v9.08 )
2B 5C 51 8B 16 B6 59 05 06 00 C5 03 32 00 C5 05
73 0B F2 00 C5 0B F2 05 02 43 8C 18 08 56 C1 03
87 21 04 29 04 8D 01 33
End
This is my best guess. And that smiley face after KM version is 08.

[TheBudMan]

Thanks, ElizabethD. Yes, it is a Dish Network receiver: ViP211. Your suggestion of using the Dish Network Combo protocol did the trick.
Some observations, though:

· I used RM, not KM, though I doubt that matters.
· Switching the protocol mangled the EFC's in my function definitions.
· I didn't need to change the repeat value; the default of 2 worked fine; however, I noticed in the following in the protocol notes:

This protocol has a minimum of 5 repeats in macros that significantly improves recognition accuracy in some models.

So does that byte really represent the number of repeats?

There was an additonal benefit from using this protocol, as well. Before, the keys wouldn't work unless I held them down — presumably causing the signal to repeat, but this caused the remote to feel "sluggish". Now, short keypresses work and the remote feels as "snappy" as the original.

Once again, thanks for the great feedback and encouragement.

[TheBudMan]

Here's another tip for those using newer model Dish Network receivers. To work around the lack of discrete power codes, consider the following. Unless you lose power, unplug it, etc. when you power off the receiver, it doesn't actually shutdown — probably most everyone realizes that.

From it's "hibernation state", you have (at least) 2 ways of getting it back "on". Obviously, you can press the power button. But, as per the screen saver, you also can press Select. The nice thing about this is that if the unit is already on, pressing Select doesn't do much, except bring up the "browse banner". And that can be cleared by pressing Exit. Thus, a Discrete On can be emulated by Select immediately followed by Exit in your macro. And Discrete Off is just Discrete On followed by Power.

I realize this could also be accomplished via the ToadTog protocol, but I think this is more foolproof, as it is truely stateless. It's also probably simpler, and it doesn't use much memory.

HTH

[ElizabethD]

Can you confirm/clarify -
with Dish Select;Exit is on and
Select;Power or Select;Exit;Power for off?

In case you want all the gory details of why your EFCs changed. I finally have come to grips with what Mike clearly explained here
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7699

More importantly, RM has correction for Dish Network Combo in case you need it, but you probably don't if you weren't transfering from KM.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7736

[TheBudMan]

Discrete On: Select; Exit
Discrete Off: Select; Exit; Power

Scenarios:
1) Discrete On/Unit Off: Select "powers on" unit; Exit does nothing
2) Discrete On/Unit On: Select brings up browse banner; Exit clears it
3) Discrete Off/Unit Off: Select "powers on" unit; Exit does nothing; Power turns off the rcvr
4) Discrete Off/Unit On: Select brings up browse banner; Exit clears it; Power turns off the rcvr

Scenario 3 is a bit inelegant, I suppose, in that the unit is off and we turn it on then off again. But I think that's a small price to pay to keep from having to hold state.

Thanks for the links explaining why the EFCs changed and the protocol fix. BTW, where did you get that protocol upgrade?

[ElizabethD]

Thanks much for the Discrete list.
Upgrade: white-on-white stuff in KM setup sheet. I hope Rob doesn't ban me from here for writing this. In 1994 it was right there in the open, wasn't it? I just copied to PB and read what it says. the rest was luck.

[TheBudMan]

You are correct. It's right in the open in the protocol upgrade box below the device upgrade code; however, that box is only populated when the protocol isn't one of the ones built-in to the remote.

In this case, it didn't matter. But what would one do if (s)he wanted to tweak a built-in protocol?

Thanks.

[Capn Trips]

Well, if you have a device upgrade in KM, the protocol, whether an upgrade is required or not, is ALWAYS present in the Protocol Upgrade box. If it is not required to be loaded as an upgrade (i.e. is already present in the remote), the text is the same color as the background, so it's invisible. You can highlight that box and still see the protocol, mess with it, and paste it in as an upgrade if you wish.

If you are using a built-in device, however, then there is no simple way to view the protocol it is calling on, aside from creating a blank KM upgrade tha calls upon that protocol, and viewing the protocol as described above.

[TheBudMan]

Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't appear the protocol is ALWAYS present. For example, if I select the NEC1 protocol, then just as you say, the Upgrade protocol is there, just hidden. But if I select "Dish Network", which is the protocol I was originally trying to modify, it is not there, hidden or otherwise. Just my luck.

[Capn Trips]

OOPS!

You've got me. I did not know that some were not there. I don't know why or how.

To simply get the protocol code, select the URC-7540/7542 remote in KM. It uses the same processor as the 1994 (S3C8), so the protocol code will be identical.

[TheBudMan]

So, to generalize, you simply picked a remote that has the same processor, but doesn't have the protocol of interest built in. A little more trial and error than I was hoping for, but clever.

Thanks.

[TheBudMan]

Just a heads up. Reading through the notes for the Dish Network Combo protocol, I noticed it listed discrete power codes (with the warning that they may not work with all models). Tried them and they work perfectly with the ViP211. I'd imagine they'd work for the PVR model, Vip622, as well.

HTH

[unclemiltie]

I can confirm that the Discrete codes that are in the previous upgrades (721, 508, 311, etc) work with the ViP622 DVR.

But Dish has changed the firmware on all of the boxes that I have (721, 508 and 622) recently so that a power off puts you into the screen saver that says to push select to continue. So a select-exit (or just select) is essentially equivalent to the power on.


The Dish boxes ARE somewhat sensitive to the repeat numbers so depending on which box you have, you'll need to tweak the protocol a bit.

Finally, I think that Dish as of a couple of years ago did document the discrete on/off codes and made a way for the Dish remotes to generate the codes with a specific key sequence. I remember reading about it but have never found it necessary to get my remotes out of the box since I use the JP1 remotes.

Oh, and I'm still trying to figure out if I can make the receiver respond to an IR remote that is behaving like the UHF remote for the two tuner boxes (my ViP622 specifically) I need a more scientific way to figure this out rather than the hunt-and-peck that I'm trying now. But that's a topic for another day!

[jmezz13]

I have the VIP622 and the manual does document the how to generate a Discrete On and Off. Here's how they appeared when I learned the codes. I did test and they seem to work.

Discrete On - EFC=242 (Dish Network Protocol Device=0 SubD=0)
Discrete Off - EFC=174 (Dish Network Protocol Device=0 SubD=0)