Buying advice sought 2 - Flat Panel TV (Plasma vs. LCD)

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:28 am

Having had my plasma stolen recently, the move back to the US is an opportuinty to replace/upgrade in this area. I read a lot of inflamed passionate opinions about Plasma burn-in and LCD washout, but what is the current state-of-the-art on these displays? As I understand it:

Plasma Pros -

brighter picture (viewable in a bright room),
greater contrast,
more realistic colors
slightly cheaper for a given screen size

Plasma cons -

heavier,
burn-in (my stolen NEC 42MP3 had (after four years) lines visible (just barely - I could tell, my wife and kids could not) where the black side bars would be when viewing 4:3 content and not stretched
hard to find in true HD resolutions

LCD pros -

lighter
higher native resolutions available

LCD cons -

needs a darker room
slower (noticeably?) response for fast action or sports scenes
poorer blacks
off-angle viewing harder
more expensive

Can anybody elaborate for me any misconceptions I have in the above? or provide other useful insight or considerations? My initial inclination is to go Plasma, but burn-in worries me.

zaphod7501 · Post by **zaphod7501** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:27 pm

Well, here goes Rob's bandwidth for the month. As a TV repair shop, I literally get asked this question daily. I don't like any of the current technologies. All of them have problems. None of them are repairable. None of them will last reliably for more than 5 - 7 years before boards (unreplaceable and unrepairable) start failing.

Plasma and LCD look good in the store but not necessarily in the home. What will work will be decided by:
1: Seating distance
2: Seating angles
3: Room lighting
4: Control of room lighting
5: Signal sources (I'll get to your other post later - I type slow).

If you select a set based on these requirements, and calibrate it properly, then performance differences between the types will probably be negligible.

My personal preferences are DLP projectors and DLP Micro-Displays. Colors are excellent. The technology has the most development of the current tech. It has the fewest failure modes. It has zero burnin possibilites. But you will replace an expensive ($200 - $300) lamp every two or three years (regardless of the stated life hours).

All of the lifespan figures that you read are based on the assumption that the device never breaks ! If it breaks and is over two years old, it will be a doorstop. (get the extended warranty)

In the service industry, we originally thought LCD microdisplays would be the best tech until we found out that the manufacturers would never supply the parts needed to perform real repairs. The ability to perform component level repair is what keeps sets working in the 5 to 15 year range when failures tend to occur (most failures are not normally terminal). When that becomes impossible then any failure (on the new sets) generally render them landfill fodder.

SXRD and the LCOS options are some manufacturers' attempts to bypass Texas Instruments patents on the DLP technology. Maybe they will do it successfully, eventually, but right now they are playing "catch up". They are attempting to duplicate the reflective method without infringing on other's rights. IMHO not ready for prime time. Rumor had it that Sony went LCD and SXRD because they refused to abide by TI's rules on maximum price for a DLP TV.

If you have some idea on the five points above, then meaningfull advice can be better offered. If your seating is 12 - 15 feet or more, then none of the current TVs are technically big enough. Nominal viewing distance on a progressive scan TV is four times the height of the screen. (they even basically agree with this at AVS) Diagonal measurements are meaningless, the height is the only determining factor.

The Home Theater Forum is a friendlier place for posting but does not contain the level of expertice that AVS has (if you can sort through the AVS noise). http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/index.php

Myself, I have an old (1998) Sony 53" RPTV for casual TV viewing and an InFocus 4805 projector (at 144" diagonal) for serious viewing. The $1000 cost is less that any repair possible on the new LCD, Plasma, or MicroDisplay TVs. I can replace it for $700 if a serious problem develops.

Plasma: To get it bright enough for a bright room, you will get burn-in.
High internal temperatures = short lived circuit boards.

LCD: Nothing specific except for heat related failures and I personally don't like the picture.

LCD MicroDisplay: I really don't like the picture.

DLP MicroDisplay: OK if you find a good manufacturer.

Manufacturers and picture quality: All of them will look OK with HD sources but only the good companies will look OK on analog and SD (or marginal) signals. Reason: signal processing. Sony, Panasonic, Hitachi, Mitsubishi employ quality deinterlacers and scalers while the Korean and no-name brands don't. Look for Faroudja, Pixelworks, (and possibly Telesonic) licensing on other brand sets. The big four will either use them or do it properly themselves; others you will have to check. The Faroudja chip is the difference between my InFocus PJ and your typical (higher resolution) business projectors. Even at ten foot wide, a BetaMax tape looks good.

greenough1 · Post by **greenough1** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:49 am

Nice reply Steve! It made for a very interesting read, your perspective as a servicer, on what's possible to repair or not... I tell folks who have the space and can't accomodate a projector to buy a rp CRT. They are a dying breed, but at least the technology is very mature and generally you can get boards repaired.

Hi Capn, let us know some of your other constraints (size of display you're considering e.g.) that are going into your thinking.

Best,
jeff

zaphod7501 · Post by **zaphod7501** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:23 pm

greenough1 wrote: I tell folks who have the space and can't accomodate a projector to buy a rp CRT.

The CRT based RPTV is the one most likely to be still working at 10 (and 15) years of age. It is the most repairable technology.

My 53" 4:3 Sony is 22" deep. The 43"s were only about 18" deep. A 6 inch thick Plasma plus the mandatory 5 inch wall clearence does not gain you much floorspace.

The problem with the new ones that are 16:9 HD ready is that they burn-in very easily. Some of the boards are repairable but the digital processing boards are not.

About a year or so ago, they were selling off the last of the 4:3 CRT RPTVs for $1000: a great value.

Come on Cap'n, you've got to have more questions.

greenough1 · Post by **greenough1** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:15 pm

My 73'' mits 2nd gen HD ready is 7.5 years old, no repairs yet (knock on wood). my other set is a 50'' toshiba 2002 year model also with no repairs (again knocking on wood). The 73'' is a 600 lbs monster, but rolls very easy on hardwood. The 50'' is lighter at about 175 lbs and also rolls easily. The main failure in these set (at least the most common issue) is convergence IC's going out. That's a pretty easy repair on both and the parts are readily available. People can buy rebuilt versions of almost all the boards, even the older mits. I"m hoping to get 10+ out of both. What's new now will be mature by then. No bleeding edge for me

Best,
jeff

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:15 am

Nope, no questions. Just absorbing the (greatly-appreciated) commentary.

I acknowledge all of the remarks about "unproven" technologies and risks, but from where I sit, I believe (perhaps foolishly, but so does the Consumers' Union, publisher of Comsumers' Reports, whose opinions I value highly, particularly re: reliability) that both plasma and LCD are pretty mature at this point, so I'm less concerned about failures.

I will also admit to a (perhaps unfounded) bias that has yet to be overcome with any projection TV (front or rear) and that is that I have yet to see a picture that I consider sufficiently bright on any such display to permit casual viewing comfortably without blacking out the room, nor have I seen a projection display that I like from off-angles.

As stated at the outset, I had a (non-HD) 42" Plasma for 4 years, for two of which it hung on the wall in the house to which I am returning - and the last two over here in the UK (from whence it was stolen) and am a pretty big fan of hang-on-the wall TVs anyway so no RPTV for me. Thanks for all of the advice, however.

Further, my family room geometry (our primary TV/video viewing area) will not allow a large-ish free-standing RPTV without rendering the room unusable, so "hang-on-the-wall" is my only option (other than a 29" CRT on a stand).

I am further restricted by the space available on the wall (above the fireplace and below the ceiling) to a 42" diagonal screen - so no 50"-er either. Hence my original focus on Plasma vs. LCD.