Signal duration too short

arantius · Post by **arantius** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:59 pm

I've got an 8910 with extender 1 installed. Things are working pretty great (especially thanks to the help of some members here already). I've found a working discrete on code for my VCR.

IR file: http://arantius.info/ir/8910_ex1_arantius.ir

I've tested it down to the case described in the readme. If I press shift-enter (and hold enter for a short moment), the VCR turns on. If I press L4, set to this macro "DEV_VCR;SHIFT-enter;Dev_Cancel" it never works. The readme says this is the test to know that the short duration is too short. But to fix it, it just says "there are then a variety of approaches to fixing it".

Um, what might that variety be?

ewt · Post by **ewt** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:30 pm

I have the same question, but for a different remote/extender: 15-1994 Extender v5.1.

"The extender reduces (to the minimum value) the duration of signals which
are not the very last step in its macro buffer..."

I did the same test as arantius, and the duration is too short. I can put the command on a key, and it works; if I put it in a macro, it fires too quickly. The instructions then say "... you know it's a duration problem (there are then a variety of approaches to fixing it)."

I tried the lkp protocol, until I realized it was intended to handle a long key press by the user, not to generate one. BTW, the longer duration is needed for both discrete codes of a JVC HD-61FH97 TV.

Thanks,

Eric

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:47 am

For BOTH of you, the problem is that the minimum DURATION of the signal generated by the built-in protocols is too short when it's embedded in a macro, so you need to replace the built-in protocols with protocol upgrades that extend the duration. That is usually set by one of the bytes in the protocol upgrade, so although I've been around long enough to show you the protocol you need to modify, I'm not smart enough to identify which byte needs changing, but I'm sure one of the experts will jump in shortly.

arantius,

Your VCR setup code uses the Panasonic protocol 00C9:

Upgrade Protocol 0 = 00 C9 (S3C8+) Panasonic (KM v9.06)
45 91 51 8B 12 8F 44 08 08 00 DA 00 C6 00 DA 02
7B 90 C9 06 D0 03 54 E6 0C E8 60 03 20 01 E4 08
09 B4 03 09 20 10 F6 01 46 F6 01 0A FB 0D 00 0C
EB F4 C6 3E 00 00 B0 4A F6 01 0A AF
End

ewt,

I presume you are using the JVC Combo protocol 0098:

Upgrade Protocol 0 = 00 98 (S3C8) JVC Combo
43 8B 02 8B 19 CC D9 80 20 08 08 01 07 00 F4 01 07
03 03 73 50 10 7C 08 2A 00 03 00 59 8C 8D 01 46
End

or JVC Euro:

Upgrade Protocol 0 = 00 98 (S3C8) JVC Euro (KM v9.06)
43 8B 12 8B 19 C5 C9 80 20 08 08 01 07 00 F4 01
07 03 03 73 50 10 7C 08 2A 00 00 00 5A 95 76 05
80 6B 03 B6 03 04 8D 01 33
End

Post by **ElizabethD** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:52 am

No expert.

No idea abaout Panasonic, but try changing red bytes for JVC. I don't think any control bytes are involved here, but if they are, an EXPERT is needed.

Using copy of previous post:

"I presume you are using the JVC Combo protocol 0098:

Upgrade Protocol 0 = 00 98 (S3C8) JVC Combo
43 8B 02 8B 19 CC D9 80 20 08 08 01 07 00 F4 01 07
03 03 73 50 10 7C 08 2A 00 03 00 59 8C 8D 01 46
End

or JVC Euro:

Upgrade Protocol 0 = 00 98 (S3C8) JVC Euro (KM v9.06)
43 8B 12 8B 19 C5 C9 80 20 08 08 01 07 00 F4 01
07 03 03 73 50 10 7C 08 2A 00 00 00 5A 95 76 05
80 6B 03 B6 03 04 8D 01 33
End
"

Edit: I suspect that control byte is involved, but haven't yet figurd out the calculation. if so, JVC Combo $CC in 6th byte from the start, and JVC Euro in 7th byte will need change as well. But perhaps it'll work with just the red bytes change.

Post by **ElizabethD** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:39 pm

A thought for Panasonic

arantius wrote: If I press shift-enter (and hold enter for a short moment), the VCR turns on. If I press L4, set to this macro "DEV_VCR;SHIFT-enter;Dev_Cancel" it never works. The readme says this is the test to know that the short duration is too short. But to fix it, it just says "there are then a variety of approaches to fixing it".

Um, what might that variety be?

If shift-Enter is using discreteON code, try issuing it two, three times in the macro. If it's a power toggle, that's a whole different story, and will likely need some protocol change.

arantius · Post by **arantius** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:38 pm

If shift-Enter is using discreteON code, try issuing it two, three times in the macro

Who'da think it'd be so easy? Thanks Elizabeth! Put the discrete-on x 3 for both my DVD and my VCR, and suddenly they're listening. My set up is just about perfect now!

Too bad my cable box (the one device I couldn't really replace even if I thought it'd be worth it) doesn't have discrete on/off codes.

ewt · Post by **ewt** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:57 pm

Thanks for all the help! I am slightly embarrassed, as I was just using the default JVC code of 0053 - everything basically worked so I never thought of making/trying an upgrade.

I will give the 0098 a try with your suggestions to increase duration. Thanks!

BTW, I tried repeating the discreteOn several times in my macro, but it didn't work for me. I am glad it worked for you, arantius!

Eric

greenough1 · Post by **greenough1** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:50 pm

arantius,
for the cable box, many folks just leave it on all the time. I do and it makes life pretty simple

jeff

DavidBS · Post by **DavidBS** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:11 pm

Hi all,

I think I'm having a similar problem: I recently bought a URC-9910 (Thanks Rob!), which is about the same remote as my old 8910 I've been using for more than three years, but with a RF extender that repeats the the signals sent by the remote. No need to aim anymore! Well... Nearly.

If I don't point the remote (only the base unit faces the components), my Scientific Atlanta 8300 PVR sometimes misses a command when the command is inside a macro. If I use the same command directly on a button (no macro), the command works properly, so I guess that the problem is that the duration of the signal is too short. Can anyone help?

The protocol for the SA 8300 is Panasonic(old)

Any help will be greatly appreciated,
David

Post by **ElizabethD** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:43 pm

For starters try to send the command twice, three times, in a macro. it may goof up if it's a power toggle, for instance, but worth trying. If that fails, you'll need the extended duration tricks. Report back and someone who knows the protocol might help.

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:53 am

I think it is more likely to need delay (a slight pause before the problem commands) than extra duration. Some of the extender readme files discuss tests to find out whether you need delay or extra duration.

DavidBS · Post by **DavidBS** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:42 am

ElizabethD wrote:For starters try to send the command twice, three times, in a macro. it may goof up if it's a power toggle, for instance, but worth trying. If that fails, you'll need the extended duration tricks. Report back and someone who knows the protocol might help.

Yeah, thanks Elizabeth. Tried that. But I can't send the command twice or three times because sometimes commands work, sometimes not. So I can't reliably know if a command has passed or not. This causes problems with the power toggle.

I will try adding a delay as johnsfine suggests.

Thanks!
David

DavidBS · Post by **DavidBS** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:31 pm

Wow, I tried adding a delay before a problem command and it works! Thanks, johnsfine.

I would still like to know if a protocol modification would also solve my problem, as I would find the solution more elegant (and save move/macro memory, which is scarce). Is there a source of information somewhere in this forum or elsewhere, where I could learn how to determine how the protocol works? Where can I get started?

Many thanks,
David

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