JP1 Remotes Forum Index JP1 Remotes


FAQFAQ SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist UsergroupsUsergroups RegisterRegister
ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

RCA TV/DVD combo unit model 20F510TD

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> JP1 - Protocol Decodes
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
M$Guy



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:58 am    Post subject: RCA TV/DVD combo unit model 20F510TD Reply with quote

New guy here. I've been reading and searching all over the place to see if someone made an upgrade for the URC-9910, but to no avail. I've got a new RCA TV/DVD combo unit model 20F510TD. I am using Decodeir.dll version 2.32, and it still doesn't give a protocol name. I suspect it is just too new of a protocol. The learned codes all work just fine, but there are too many buttons (43) on the original remote to learn all of them at once due to not enough memory on the 9910. I've had to split the TV and DVD functions on two learn passes. The interesting thing about the remote is that it uses the same code for several functions on the TV itself, and the TV decides which function the code will control based on which mode you have placed the TV in using a TV or DVD button. It is like a shift button on a remote, but the shift is done at the TV, so you have to program these two buttons in to get the shift functionality. Once I find the upload location, I will upload the two IR files and see if you guys can identify the protocol so I can do the upgrade on this and have all the buttons working.

Thanks,
David
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M$Guy



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I removed this post to eliminate any confusion. The latest learned files are further down the post.

Last edited by M$Guy on Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:37 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M$Guy



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the original remote control. There are no part numbers visible anywhere on it.



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Capn Trips
Expert


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3950
Location: Burke, Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will need an expert to determine whether those Gap decodes are indeed a new protocol or whether they indicate some learning problems. (The fact that the learned signals WORK does not mean that they were learned cleanly enough for decodeIR.dll to decode them.) Are you certain that you have followed all of the recommendations for best learning?

Also, two questions/recommendations:

(1) Why didn't you learn the OEM buttons to the corresponding 9910 buttons? Learning "8" to "TV/VID" and "CH+" to "Pause"
(a) makes no sense, and
(b) makes it very hard to keep track of what function is what;

(2) When you have notes about what function is learned to what button, it's best to put that info in the notes sections of IR. On the Learned Signals Tab, you will notice a "Notes" section at the bottom of the window for EACH learned signal. If you use that, then a person need not try to decypher a cross-reference chart, and is likely to have an easier time helping you.

The goal is to make it as easy as possible for someone to help you.
_________________
Beginners - Read this thread first
READ BEFORE POSTING or your post will be DELETED!


Remotes:Atlas OCAP URC 1056, Harmony One, OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: Panasonic TH-50PE700U; JVC AV-29VS24; Sharp Aquos LC-60C46U; RCVR: Pioneer VSX-D2016S;Onkyo TX-SR875
DVD/VCR: Sharp DV-NC85 (multi-region, multi-system DVD-VCR), Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A1 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR); Laserdisc/CD changer: Pioneer CLD-M450; CLD-704. (But I still have to get up for my beer)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
M$Guy



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed that the learned codes basically look like timings of off and on cycles (and I've graphed them in Excel just to see what is what), and they vary slightly off from exacting numbers for whatever time they are, such as 500 us will show up as 492 us or 508 us, etc., so that is a possibility for lack of cleanliness when it comes to learning. Clock timing will never be perfect from device to device on lightwaves unless the clocks are both connected to a synched source.

I did follow all of the best learning practices. I actually found out on my own that if you do not follow them that you will get a single press code and a release code on occasion.

To answer the question, the 9910 doesn't have all the buttons labeled as the OEM remote has, and when learning all buttons, there will be some arbitrary buttons to be used on the learning remote. Since the learning remote is only partially capable of mapping 1:1 to the original remote button labels, it is just as arbitrary to use the correct labels and some incorrect labels as it is to learn them in the sequence that I used; Hence the reason for the map. There would have to be a map no matter what with this remote since it doesn't have the ability to map 1:1 to the original buttons. As with any application when you have a bunch of meaningless, arbitrary codes, you need a map to help you make them into something meaningful, no? Smile

Now that I know the notes window is there (I missed it, quite obviously Embarassed ), I have re-uploaded the files with the mapped keys noted in each notes section, and also added the mapping to the general notes section on both files.

Thanks,
David
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Capn Trips
Expert


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3950
Location: Burke, Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M$Guy wrote:
I noticed that the learned codes basically look like timings of off and on cycles (and I've graphed them in Excel just to see what is what), and they vary slightly off from exacting numbers for whatever time they are, such as 500 us will show up as 492 us or 508 us, etc., so that is a possibility for lack of cleanliness when it comes to learning. Clock timing will never be perfect from device to device on lightwaves unless the clocks are both connected to a synched source.
I'm aware that there will always be some timing variations even in perfectly generated and learned signals, but decodeIR.dll is pretty darned good at smoothing through those. Clearly you have identified some of the things required to build your own protocol. I suggest you download Protocol Builder and read and follow these instructions to try to build your own protocol.

Again, I'm not smart enough to identify whether this protocol is simple enough that the document has sufficient detail to walk you through building a new protocol, but it's certainly a place to start.

M$Guy wrote:
I did follow all of the best learning practices. I actually found out on my own that if you do not follow them that you will get a single press code and a release code on occasion.
OK. I was just throwing it out there as a frequent cause of bad learns. But your learns are all pretty consistent, so I won't question that you learned them properly.
M$Guy wrote:
To answer the question, the 9910 doesn't have all the buttons labeled as the OEM remote has, and when learning all buttons, there will be some arbitrary buttons to be used on the learning remote. Since the learning remote is only partially capable of mapping 1:1 to the original remote button labels, it is just as arbitrary to use the correct labels and some incorrect labels as it is to learn them in the sequence that I used; Hence the reason for the map. There would have to be a map no matter what with this remote since it doesn't have the ability to map 1:1 to the original buttons. As with any application when you have a bunch of meaningless, arbitrary codes, you need a map to help you make them into something meaningful, no? Smile
I understand your point, and see that you are rather fervent about it. I respectfully suggest that it appears that only about three or four functions in each mode really have no analogous button on the 9910 that would be "obvious" to learn to, and a map explaining 3 or 4 is simpler that a map addressing every button. Again, my point is if its all the same for you, fine, but if the goal is to make it as easy as possible for someone to help you, I suggest it's still useful to match as many of the functions as the two remotes would permit for ease of translation, but I will not belabor the point (any more than I already have). We can agree to disagree and it will have no impact on the issue at hand.
_________________
Beginners - Read this thread first
READ BEFORE POSTING or your post will be DELETED!


Remotes:Atlas OCAP URC 1056, Harmony One, OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: Panasonic TH-50PE700U; JVC AV-29VS24; Sharp Aquos LC-60C46U; RCVR: Pioneer VSX-D2016S;Onkyo TX-SR875
DVD/VCR: Sharp DV-NC85 (multi-region, multi-system DVD-VCR), Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A1 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR); Laserdisc/CD changer: Pioneer CLD-M450; CLD-704. (But I still have to get up for my beer)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
johnsfine
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4767
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seen that protocol before recently. I didn't get around to doing anything about it and I still don't have time.

I think Rob made an upgrade the last time we saw this, but I'm not certain about that. The last burst before the lead-out burst is tricky. I'm pretty sure PB can't generate that. Lately Rob has done more than I have in making executors for tricky protocols. He knows or remembers more of the ways of sidestepping the rules of simple protocol generation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 16264
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This protocol first showed up in a Insignia NS-27HTV TV remote:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=50868#50868

Then it popped up again in a Polaroid TTM-2420 TV remote:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7498

This RCA set uses a different device code (ie, the first 8 bits are 00000110 rather than 00000010) so you'll need a new upgrade. I'll try and cook one up for you later today.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 16264
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the upgrade file...
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=3973

Looking at the pictures of the remote, it appears that you missed the DISPLAY and PICTURE/SLEEP button.

I followed the link to the PDF of the user manual and it shows a different remote there, do you know why that is by any chance?
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
M$Guy



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what the deal is with that PDF. The remote I have pictured is the actual remote.

I did determine that the TV and DVD modes on the original remote do output different codes based on their selection (aka, a Shift function), so I have created new files, mapping all buttons to their respective locations as far as possible, then mapping everything else to sequential buttons in order on the 9910. I did this using both TV and DVD modes on the original remote, and learned everything into the TV mode on the 9910. I had to break them up into half the buttons per file due to memory space. The new files are here:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=3977
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=3972
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=3978
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=3971

By the way, the upgrade you posted works, but it wasn't complete, due to an error on my part by not giving you all of the codes. These 4 files have all of the possible codes in both modes.

Thanks,
David
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 16264
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The TV side of this unit uses exactly the same codes as the
Insignia NS-27HTV:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=3984

Here's a new upgrade for the DVD side:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=3973
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
M$Guy



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, thanks. I took the info out of the files you created and compiled a new .IR file for myself. The TV portion only controls TV function, the DVD only controls DVD function, and the proper keys work as expected. I only have 4 keys learned, and that's on my DSS, I had to create a learned VOL+ and VOL- and the default code for DSS doesn't support the skip forward and back features of my DVR, so I had to learn those as well.

I see you already uploaded the upgrades to the Upgrades section, so I don't need to do it. Smile

Thanks again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic       JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> JP1 - Protocol Decodes All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Rockabilly Central

 

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Get Smart! the band's official homepage Rockabilly Central