Help with the basics of LKP with a URC 8910 b02

[jmcmillon]

Like others here, I am trying to simplify how my remote works so as to prevent confusion with friends and family.

To start off, I would like to get the following macro to work with a long key press of the TV button:

select my TV (I have tried both TV and DEV_TV)
turn it on
select my RCVR (I have tried both RCVR/AMP and DEV_AUD)
turn it on
switch to Video three with a push of the '3' button

Not too much to start with, right? I can't seem to make it work. I have successfully uploaded the 8910ext1_1 extender including all the required protocols (LKP misc 1106).

In the special protocol tab of IR, I have tried entering TV in the Device Field and TV in the Key field. I also tried TV and phantom1.

I tried selecting LKP [MISC:1106] duration 2.

Under the short keys (I also tried the long keys column), I entered:
DEV_TV
Power
DEV_AUD
Power
3

I have found other peoples .ir files on the forums, but I am having a hard time figuring out what is going on with them.

Any ideas on what my problem is?

Thanks to all of the volunteers who make JP1 what it is!!

[Capn Trips]

From the Begineers - Read this thread first sticky post:

Since we end up making the same requests for most people who ask questions, maybe this should be a sticky post. Something like:

"Having trouble with upgraded device/macros/keymoves/IR.exe"

Please post your IR and KM/RM file in the Diagnosis Area for us to look at. We can usually spot the mistake in seconds, whereas it could take days with us asking you questions trying to guess which step you might have skipped.

PLUS....
1) PLEASE post a link to the files

[jmcmillon]

Ok... I have gotten a little more daring after reading this post. Greg did exactly what I hope to do with the following devices:

Pioneer Plasma TV (device upgrade labeled 2004)
Panasonic DVD player (0490)
Onkyo Receiver (device upgrade labeled 1135)
MythTV (configured as a VCR, device upgrade labeled 2005)

I don't ever turn off my MythTV box, and my RCVR is the only device with discrete on/off signals.

Here is a copy of my .ir file:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3587

Any idea what I am doing wrong? I have tried using Greg's conventions as much as possible such as:

Device/Phantom1 - Discrete Off
Device/Phantom2 - Discrete On
Device/Phantom3 - "Discrete Toggle" (aka "tracking toggle"
or "DUDE power")
Device/L4 - non-tracking toggle (aka TOAD power)

I used L1 where he used phantom4 since phantom4 was not available on my extender

Thanks again for the help!!

[Capn Trips]

Before we attack the ToadTog issue, let's look at some of your keymoves. I believe that keymoves 4 through 10 will not work (neither directly nor in a macro or LKP sequence, nor a ToadTog) because you have the wrong DEVICE TYPE for those KeyMoves. They ought to be referencing RCVR/1135, but it appears they are referencing AMP/1135 (4-7) and DVD/1135 (8-10). Change the Device Types for those KeyMoves to RCVR and they ought to work better.

Code: Select all

	  Device 		          Device 					
#	 Button	  Key	      Button	Device Type Setup Code	Hex Cmd	EFC or Key Name	Note

 4	RCVR/AMP	L1	          <N/A>	    AMP	1135	       $49 $A6	32867	
 5	RCVR/AMP	L2	          <N/A>	    AMP	1135	       $C9 $DD	31768	
 6	RCVR/AMP	L3	          <N/A>	    AMP	1135	       $C9 $3D	31992	
 7	RCVR/AMP	L4	          <N/A>	    AMP	1135	       $C9 $BD	31864	
 8	RCVR/AMP	RCVR/AMP	    <N/A>	    DVD	1135	       $49 $45	32896	
 9	RCVR/AMP	Enter	       <N/A>	    DVD	1135	       $49 $56	32915	
10	RCVR/AMP	Home_Theater	<N/A>	    DVD	1135	       $C9 $1D	31960	
11	RCVR/AMP	Exit	      RCVR/AMP	  RCVR	1135	       $C9 $1D	31960	

	
17	RCVR/AMP	Phantom3	RCVR/AMP	    RCVR	1135	      $1D	170	Unsure what EFC should go here...

When you do that, all of your N/A's in the 2'nd Device Button column will become RCVR/AMPs (which is what I believe you want).

The second significant problem I see is that you have multiple Keymoves and Macros assigned to the same buttons in several instances. An advanced user, using the knowledge that a Keymove will take priority over a Macro may occassionally set things up like that intentionally, but I don't believe you're at that phase yet, so you should probably deconflict your multiple assignments. Specifically:

(1) Phantom 1 is a generic button assignment macro, yet in three device modes you have keymoves assigned: ToadTogs (which are essentially KeyMoves) in TV and DVD modes, and a Keymove in RCVR mode, so the Macro will almost NEVER run, unless you are in NEITHER of those three modes;
(2) L1 is a Turn Everything OFF Macro, yet in RCVR/AMP mode, you have a Keymove assigned to it (incorrectly, as I point out above)
(3) RCVR/AMP This device button has a Device Selection macro on it, yet when IN receiver mode, you have a Keymove assigned to it (incorrectly, as above). So it would basically require you to press RCVR once to get the keysets assigned, and then a second time to execute that keymove. Perhaps intentional, but I suspect not.

So FIRST, you should deconflict these conflicting macros and keymoves. You have a LOT of "phantom" buttons, you know, and NOT just the ones called phantoms. Shifted buttons, and x-shifted buttons for EVERY button are available to hold ToadTog, LKP and Macro sequences for you.

Even (and most likely easiest to use at the outset) the phantom buttoms themselves can be used in the Shifted and x-shifted modes, so do not feel obligated to stick to anybody else's convention. Use them as best suits YOUR needs.

Make those fixes and then we can look at your ToadTogs.

[jmcmillon]

Thanks for taking the time to look at my configuration!

(1) Phantom 1 is a generic button assignment macro, yet in three device modes you have keymoves assigned: ToadTogs (which are essentially KeyMoves) in TV and DVD modes, and a Keymove in RCVR mode, so the Macro will almost NEVER run, unless you are in NEITHER of those three modes;

I am using the Greg's example linked above, specifically:

EXAMPLE: "All off" macro

Since we have programmed all discrete off buttons to Phantom1,
this "all off" macro is very easy.

X_TV;Phantom1;X_RCVR;Phantom1;X_DVD;Phantom1;X_VCR;Phantom1

We can add any devices we need to this list. Since all devices have
actual or simulated discrete power commands, there are nothing to
keep track of at this "level".

A short key press on the power button should call the corresponding
device's "discrete toggle" command (always Phantom3). A long key
press should call the Phantom4 macro. Since the Phantom4 macro is
accessable from every device and all discrete toggle commands are
programmed identically for each device, this macro is identical for
every device.

Where his Phantom4 is my L4. My understanding is that all devices with discrete on/off buttons (Greg's TV and RCVR, my RCVR) have key moves assigned as follows: Phantom1 is "discrete off" EFC, Phantom2 is "discrete on" EFC and Phantom3 is discrete "toggle".

(2) L1 is a Turn Everything OFF Macro, yet in RCVR/AMP mode, you have a Keymove assigned to it (incorrectly, as I point out above)

I have deleted the conflicting RCVR/AMP keymoves you mentioned above. I didn't ever use those particular functions.

The second significant problem I see is that you have multiple Keymoves and Macros assigned to the same buttons in several instances. An advanced user, using the knowledge that a Keymove will take priority over a Macro may occassionally set things up like that intentionally, but I don't believe you're at that phase yet, so you should probably deconflict your multiple assignments.

I don't think I have any more keymoves and macros assigned to the same buttons, unless TV:Phantom1 is equivalent to DVD:Phantom1, TV:Phantom2 is equivalent to DVD:Phantom2, etc.

Here is a link to my current file:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3588

Again, what I have tried to do is follow Greg's working example. Unfortunately in doing so, we end up having to trouble shoot two different files and try to figure out how someone else did something. I appreciate the patience.

Thanks again for the help!!

[Capn Trips]

Greg's example is sort of immaterial. You have to clearly state what YOU are trying to accomplish.

Rather than just "fix" it for you, I provide the following long-winded explanation of what's going on in the hopes that you will understand for future changes you are making/considering.

There seems to be a few basic fundamentals you are overloooking. I'm not saying these are OBVIOUS fundamentals, but they are true just the same.

(1) Macros are global;
(2) Keymoves are device-specific;
(3) Special Functions are just fancy Keymoves, and behave like Keymoves in the following regard;
(4) Keymoves TAKE PRECEDENCE over Macros. A Macro will only execute if the remote finds NO KEYMOVES assigned to that button (whether it's "real" or phantom, shifted, or x-shifted or not)
(5) Finally, for the extender, you must keep track of what keysets are assigned to what button group (or use DEV_XXX commands as necessary)when designing your button sequences, whether it's in a macro, or within a special function sequence.

Look at your Macros Tab. (Don't look at Greg's Macros Tab) You have a Macro assigned to phantom 1. It assigns all of the keysets to whatever DEV_??? command precedes it.

THEN, for 3 devices, you ADDITIONALLY have phantom 1 defined as a discrete OFF. For the TV and DVD devices you do this via ToadTog while I presume for the RCVR device that is a natural discrete OFF in the keymoves section.
(using the Notes sections generously sprinkled about IR would be helpful to keep track of various Keymoves, Special Functions, Macros, Device and Protocol upgrades, etc. esp. to someone trying to analyse your file).
Those three discrete OFF commands do not interfere with each other, since they are for different devices, but they DO interfere with the MACRO on phantom 1, since Macros are global.

Therefore when Phantom 1 is invoked, it will FIRST try to execute the DEVICE-SPECIFIC command (KEYMOVE or TOADTOG) and if it doesn't find one, it will execute the MACRO.

In your setup, this results in:

When you press VCR, CBL, SAT, CD, or AUX, the Phantom 1 Macro will execute, assigning all of the keysets to that device.

However, when you press TV, DVD, or RCVR, the assigned Special Function or KeyMove will execute (Discrete OFF for the receiver and call to ToadTog for TV and DVD) in all three cases.

For the RCVR, this should send your Discrete OFF keymove.

For the TV and DVD, the ToadTog will execute L4 FOR THE CURRENT DEVICE MODE of the remote. Since you never assigned the Keysets to TV or DVD (the Phantom 1 MACRO had not ever executed for those devices) it is trying to send L4 for the RCVR, VCR, or CD, or whatever your last active device selection was.

BOTTOM LINE: Your current setup allows NO combination of any button presses to get your remote into TV, DVD or RCVR modes.

Recommendation:
You need to EITHER change your device selection (keyset assignment) Macro to reside on Shift-Phantom 1 (and change all of the device-selection macros accordingly), OR
Use shift-Phantom 1 for your discrete OFF instead of Phantom 1.

Personally, I would:
(1) redefine the Phantom 1 macro to shift-phantom 1;
(2) Delete your current Device Button macros;
(3) Create macros on the device buttons that will power up and line up the appropriate components as you like them (like your current xshift-TV macro)

IF as the next level you want to use LKP to "simplify" things, here is how I would modify your current approach:

(1) Retain Phantom 1 as Discrete OFF and Phantom 2 as Discrete ON for each device. Since you seem to be on the right track with these.
(2) Use shift-Phantom 1 as your Keyset Assignment Macro (vice Phantom 1)
(2) Define LKPs on shift-Phantom 2 for DVD, VCR, CBL, and SAT as follows:
SKP=shift-Phantom 1 (assigns Keysets)
LKP=Phantom 2 (Discrete ON for the selected component); shift-Phantom 1(assigns Keysets to device calling the LKP); DEV_TV; phantom 2 (Discrete on); SET_PIP_KEYS (if desired); XXX (applicable input selection key);DEV_RCVR; phantom 2 (Discrete on); SET_VOL_KEYS (if desired); XXX (applicable input selection key).
(3) Define Macros on the device keys calling these LKPs: e.g.
DVD: DEV_DVD; shift-Phantom2.

This will make your device buttons globally invoke the referenced LKP.

For OFF, I would create an ALL OFF macro (DEV_XXX;Phantom 1;DEV_YYY;Phantom 1;etc) on xShift-Phantom 1)
The create LKPs on Power for EACH device: e.g.
DVD/Power
SKP=Phantom 1
LKP=xShift-Phantom 1

You have to do this on "Power" for EACH device mode becasue the LKPs are DEVICE-SPECIFIC, not GLOBAL.

Hopefully this is enough for you to digest for a while.