L/DKP question

[Eglass]

Ok I started messing with LKP tonight, I was hoping to setup my Device Buttons to:
1. Run a macro and setup my Home Theater for that device.
2. Just change the control of the remote to that device mode.

I was thinking LKP would make this simpler than using shift functions.

I am trying to setup the remote to be very intuitive so I don't have to explain it to every person that tries to use it.

Which leads me to another thought (this should probably be a new topic), I know the possibilities of what can be done with the remote are almost endless, I was wondering what crazy, cool, interesting, strange things others have done with their JP1 remotes to make them more functional.
1. What do your macros do or how do you have them setup for nesting?
2. D/LKP how have you utilized them?
3. ToadTog besides using them for power functions what else have you done with them?
4. DSM (I have not even tried these yet) I'm not even sure what they might be good for yet.
5. What ever else I have not even thought of yet.

[greenough1]

I use DSM and LKP with the extender for the 8811. I have a DSM for each device. the short key press selects the device. the long keypress executes a macro.
e.g. for the cbl button, the short kp sets up the remote to control the moto 6412 dvr (transport buttons, guide and menu, and channel). volume keyset is controled by the avr (av receiver). long key press executes the macro that switchs TO watching tv using the cbl box FROM watching some other source. this entails, selecting the appropriate input on the display, un-muting the avr and setting up the keyset.

A LKP of tv when watching the cbl box, is the reverse. All LKP's work this way. The macros are themselves DSM's.

As a side question, can TOADTOG be used for operations other than power, e.g. if the avr is already muted and I'm switching to an input that does not use the avr, leave it muted, otherwise un-mute?

Best,
jeff

[Eglass]

greenough1,
Can you explain in more detail how you setup the DSM and LKP? I'm trying to get my head around this and I’m not quite there yet.

About your ToadTog question the answer is YES I did exactly what you are asking, this is from one of my previous posts and goes right along with my second thought above:

I even created a ToadTog for the mute function on my Yamaha Amp so when ever I change inputs it is always muted since I have a mixture of digital and analog inputs that all seem to have a different volume level. This required remapping the mute function to a different key (I am thinking shift cloaking would eliminate the need to remap the mute to a different key, but I have not tried it yet) and then using the toggle mode of the TOADTOG with the mute key so it still functions properly as a toggle but also toggles the TOADTOG.

[greenough1]

Here's a sample of my IR file:

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2372

I hope this will help.

jeff

[Eglass]

Thanks Jeff I'll take a look at it and see what I can learn from it.

I also ran across the User Config files over at the Yahoo groups and downloaded this one: 2116_ex2mike3.ir

I then created a flow chart of what it is doing I uploaded it here:
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2860

[Capn Trips]

1. What do your macros do or how do you have them setup for nesting?
2. D/LKP how have you utilized them?
3. ToadTog besides using them for power functions what else have you done with them?
4. DSM (I have not even tried these yet) I'm not even sure what they might be good for yet.
5. What ever else I have not even thought of yet.

If you're looking for examples with explanations, here's my HT remote setup. I think the IR file includes sufficient exlanations in the notes to see what I've done.

Also, your link to the yahoo file won't work the way you set it up. You should read This Post about posting such links.

[The Robman]

Also, your link to the yahoo file won't work the way you set it up. You should read This Post about posting such links.

I've edited his post so the links should work now.

[Eglass]

Thanks Capn Trips for your config I'll review it and see what I can learn from it.

I did review the post about how to post links to the Yahoo files (I had actually read it before but forgotten about it, sorry) Thanks Rob for fixing my link.

I was also just looking for interesting ideas people have come up with, to give others and me something to shoot for I guess.

Thanks for the help everyone. I think I have a plan to get my LKPs working just have to find enough time to key it all in and test it.

I'll let you know how it works out and post my results for anyone to review if they want to.

[ElizabethD]

Can you explain in more detail how you setup the DSM and LKP?

In case you still need info about DSM, the way I understand and use it, usually for exceptions:
Let's say you want a cool global, all device, macro on SWAP button. Yet you have an odd device which needs slightly different macro steps, but you insist on using the same SWAP button because the macro logically belongs there. DSM to the rescue.
Bound device=odd device
Bound key=SWAP
Protocol type=DSM
Function=here go the macro steps from the dropdown list.
Device specific macro takes precedence over the global macro when you press SWAP whilein the odd device mode.

[Eglass]

OK I have been working on LKP protocol but it is not working to well.
I have been using KM 8.38 and IR 6.15

The main problem seems to be with my DVD and VCR Devices that do not have Discrete ON/OFF commands. (Seems to work fine if all the devices in the macro have actual discrete codes)
When I do a LKP to activate the Macro to setup my system, it seems as if the remote runs through the macro several times and even seems to hit devices that are not part of the macro (it goes so fast it's hard to tell).
Some devices turn on and back off (like my TV) when all I am sending is Discrete on Commands (which my TV has Discrete codes). I uploaded a zip file with 2 config files in it
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2892

The zip file has 2 IR files. The ext3lcd_TT-mute.ir is my working config with NO LKPs. The ext3 lkp 2nd.ir is my second attempt to make the LKP work.

Now I did make some changes to the devices upgrades with KM when I started to work with the LKP protocol. The ext3 lkp 2nd.ir file was started from the 2116ext3.txt file I then added all my new device upgrades and built my macros and Special Protocol Function in IR.

The problem does appear to be with the Discrete ON (ToadTog) commands for instance on my VCR mode macro, If I strip it down to the first 3 keys SHIFT-Phantom2 (turn on TV); Phantom 2 (TV Video 2 input);DEV_VCR it works OK, once I add the Discrete ON for the VCR it goes crazy again. If I change the Discrete ON to SHIFT-Power the macro works fine. Maybe I can't call a SPF from a SPF???

I used ToadTog to create the Discrete ON/OFF in the config that did not use the LKP and everything works fine that is why I am so confused.

Thanks in advance for the help,

Eric

[Capn Trips]

I haven't done a detailed analysis of your files yet, BUT the first quick thing I notice is that your ToadTogs call on "Power" when you want them to execute. Unfortunately, you have your "all off" macro assigned to "Power", which takes precedence in the remote's hierarchy for deciding what to do. So whenever you execute a ToadTog, and it selectes "Power" (rather than "do nothing") it executes your "all off" macro, which again calls on your ToadTogs and zaniness results.

This is a circumstance tailor-made for the oft-used, but little-discussed concept of "shift-cloaking". In each of your ToadTogs, instead of calling on "power", have the sequence call on "shift-power". In this case the remote will look for (1) a keymove on "shift-power" - you have none; (2) a macro assigned to "shift-power" - you again have none; and then (3) the underlying assigned function on "power" for the current device will then be executed - A-HA! this is what you want. So try changing all of your "power" commands to "shift-power" commands in your ToadTogs. Then we can tackle the next level challenge.

P.S. If you can spare the memory (which it looks like you can), I'd ensure that your ToadToags also call on the correct device before the "shift-power" command. Again, I didn't check to see if your file has the correct device selection embedded elsewhere in your LKP/Macro sequences, but it's always a safe bet to stick a "DEV_XXX" command before the "shift-power" to ensure you're talking to the right component.

EDIT: I just read your line (which I previously overlooked) that it works with "shift-power", which only confirms what I wrote above.

[Capn Trips]

Maybe I can't call a SPF from a SPF???

It took me a while to figure out what you were asking here. Does SPF mean "Special Protocol Function"? I have to say that in over three years of JP1-ing, I've never come across that acronym/abbreviation.

If so, you absolutely CAN call an SPF from an SPF. All of my device selection/system setup macros are LKPs, which call on a variety of ToadTogs to work. My bigger problem (for which I have satisfactory workarounds) is keeping the ToadTog devices in synch with their toggle bits in the remote. But I digress.

Your problem, as I wrote above, is that you call the Power macro from within each of your ToadTogs rather than the desired Power Toggle function.

[Eglass]

THANKS Capn Trips,

I think you hit the nail on the head. I will test it later today and verify.

I did use Shift-Cloaking in other areas and I just over looked it in my ToadTogs. I guess it was getting late and the old brain was not working 100%. I also like your idea of adding the Dev_XXX before the Shift-Power to make sure I am talking to the right device, and at this time I do have memory to spare, we'll see what other ideas I come up with as time goes on. It is fun to try and come up with new ideas of what the remote can do.

Do you think I should add Dev_AUD in my Mute ToadTog? I have VPT setup for the AUDIO device and I never change that anywhere.

Yes SPF was an abbreviation for "Special Protocol Function", again it was late and I was tired and trying to finish up, sorry for the confusion. I did think it was possible to call an SPF from an SPF but I was out of ideas last night as to what the problem was. But the lack of Shift-Cloaking does explain why the remote was changing devices that were not in the macro I had called.

Thanks again for the help,

[Capn Trips]

Do you think I should add Dev_AUD in my Mute ToadTog? I have VPT setup for the AUDIO device and I never change that anywhere.

I see no reason, if Set_Vol is never, ever assigned to any other device, adding the Dev_Aud command would serve no function (but it will do no harm, either).

But the lack of Shift-Cloaking does explain why the remote was changing devices that were not in the macro I had called.

Well, shift-cloaking wasn't the problem, (although I suppose from a certain perspective, you could claim that its ABSENCE was the problem) the real problem was the Power macro you were calling. You were (depending on the state of the toggle bits from you ToadTogs) executing repeating loops.

If the Toad Tog bit for VCR Power was NOT SET (i.e. remote thinks VCR's OFF) "Power On" for VCR would:
(1) execute your discrete receiver and TV power on and input selects,
(2) set the bit for VCR Power,
(3) call "Power" which would execute the "All Off"macro (I believe),
(4) execute all of your discrete off commands for TV and receiver, and
(5) execute your VCR "discrete Off" ToadTog, which would in turn:
(6) switch the toggle bit back, and
(7) execute the "power" ("all off") macro AGAIN, and
(8 ) AGAIN send all of your "discrete Off" commands to the TV and receiver, and
(9) execute your VCR "discrete Off" ToadTog, wich would THIS TIME;
(10) with the Toggle bit set to "off" and you executing the "off" ToadTog, I expect you would call the "do nothing" leg of the ToadTog and the sequence would end.

Notice in this entire sequence, you never sent a "Power" signal to your VCR

Bottom line: Shift-cloaking is your friend

[Eglass]

Capn Trip,

Thanks again, I have made the changes and everything appears to be working great now. I also figured out that I had the same problem with my Audio Mute ToadTog I was calling MUTE instead of XSHIFT-MUTE (the always muted ToadTog)

Well, shift-cloaking wasn't the problem (although I suppose from a certain perspective, you could claim that its ABSENCE was the problem) the real problem was the Power macro you were calling. You were (depending on the state of the toggle bits from you ToadTogs) executing repeating loops.

I agree totally that is what I meant when I said

lack of Shift-Cloaking does explain why the remote was changing devices that were not in the macro I had called

I was calling the ALL OFF Macro just as you said in your analysis.