General help with macro design

crowfan · Post by **crowfan** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:19 pm

Hello all,

[Sorry this is so long. I just wanted to add my thought process as fully as I could so that folks would understand where I’m coming from.]

Recently I made the switch to JP1. I own an OFA 8910, and it had the JP1 pins in it already, so I bought a USB cable off the internet for it, and started to learn JP1. I’ve managed to upgrade the remote, and I understand the software, what it does, and how to use it.

I’ve just now started to get into macros and discrete codes, but I have been having a hard time finding discretes for a number of my components. I’ve read a ton on these forums about discretes, searched the Remote Central site, Google, etc., and I just don’t think that there are discrete codes for my devices. Specifically, I want discrete on/off codes for my devices, and I think for most of them, the codes just don’t exist, or don’t work with my particular models. I’ve also explored "workaround" discretes, such as pushing Play to turn on my DVD player, and again I’ve had no luck.

To me, it seems that without discrete power codes, macros are kinda useless. When designing my macros, my thought was that for each device button, I’d send the ON command for all devices that use that function, and whatever other commands were needed for using that device (i.e., switching inputs, etc.). For example, pressing the DVD button would send: DVD on, TV on, DVD input (on TV), Receiver on, DVD input (on receiver). Then I’d program the Power button on my remote to send the OFF discretes for all of the devices. Obviously, without discrete codes for all of my devices, this plan fails miserably.

I have a Harmony 688, and I am used to that. While it’s nice (and it remembers device states, which is something the JP1 remotes don’t do, right?), it’s not as flexible as JP1. My wife and I constantly drop the Harmony, and it makes me nuts because the Harmony costs so much money. The JP1 remotes are less expensive and I wouldn’t care if we dropped one of them.

It occurred to me that the folks here, who are clearly experts on the subject, might have different plans of design for macros, ones that would not be as dependent on discrete codes. I can’t think of any other way to approach it, but I thought I’d bring the question here and see if there is something that I’m missing.

So, what are your macros plans/designs? Am I missing something here? Thanks!

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:33 pm

If having the remote remember the state of your devices is sufficient for your needs, then there is a JP1 tool that can do that, called TOADTOG.

In my case I have a mixture of devices where some have discretes and others don't, but I have still managed to program macros that work perfectly for us.

I have programmed macros that I have assigned to the shifted device buttons that turn on that particular device, along with any other needed components, and selects all the correct inputs for that device. I have also programmed a global "off" macro to the shifted POWER button.

My TV and video selector both lack discretes, so all of the power-on macros include their POWER buttons (the assumption being that this will turn the devices on) and the global "off" macro also includes their POWER buttons (the assumption being that this will turn them both off).

I run all the sound through the stereo, which doesn't have discretes, but the input selects double as discrete on commands, so I use that as a work around.

crowfan · Post by **crowfan** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:58 pm

Thanks Robman.

I had not heard of TOADTOG until now. Can you (or anyone else) point me towards a good starting place to learn about that, or where to download it? I didn't see it in the File Section but I'm not sure I was looking in the right place.

I suppose that state memory would solve my problem. My main problem is that I can't switch from one device to another without shutting off the devices. For example, if I am watching a DVD, and then I want to switch over to cable, I can either 1) include the power commands in the macros, in which case switching from one mode to another will turn off the devices, or 2) leave the power commands out of the macro, in which case I have to keep switching between devices to turn them on and off, which defeats the purpose of macros in the first place.

Thanks again!

Eglass · Post by **Eglass** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:08 pm

Cowfan

Rob (as we all know) is right on the money. I have a similar situation none of my Toshiba gear has discrete codes so I used 3 ToadTogs to create them. It was actually very simple once I got into, the only confusing part I had at first was which box to put the power command in on the Spcl Prot Fns tab to make it switch the power on the device properly, once I figured that out it works great.

I even created a ToadTog for the mute function on my Yamaha Amp so when ever I change inputs it is always muted since I have a mixture of digital and analog inputs that all seem to have a different volume level. This required remapping the mute function to a different key and then using the toggle mode of the TOADTOG with the mute key so it still functions properly.

Eglass · Post by **Eglass** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:17 pm

I think you would need the extender which is here

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=1455

I have a similar issue:

For example, if I am watching a DVD, and then I want to switch over to cable, I can either 1) include the power commands in the macros, in which case switching from one mode to another will turn off the devices, or 2) leave the power commands out of the macro, in which case I have to keep switching between devices to turn them on and off, which defeats the purpose of macros in the first place.

I have 2 (sometimes 3) devices connected to each input on my TV a Component Device + an S-Video device and/or a Composite device. The TV will "choose" the highest level device that has a signal on it, but say I am watching HDTV and I want to switch to my Showstopper they are both on Input 2 so the HDTV tuner has to be turned off, my Macros now handle all of this for me automatically. It has made my HT so much easier to use even my wife can do it now.
[/quote]

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:22 pm

crowfan wrote:My main problem is that I can't switch from one device to another without shutting off the devices. For example, if I am watching a DVD, and then I want to switch over to cable, I can either 1) include the power commands in the macros, in which case switching from one mode to another will turn off the devices, or 2) leave the power commands out of the macro, in which case I have to keep switching between devices to turn them on and off, which defeats the purpose of macros in the first place.

It's for reasons like this that I personally don't like programming macros to the un-shifted device buttons. I prefer to program my "system on" macros to the shifted device buttons.

In your case, if you have macros on the device buttons and you want to switch into a device mode without triggering the macro, you can use the shifted device button (ie, press SETUP before you press the device button). Of course, doing it this way means that you have to use shifting everytime that you want to change device modes, whereas my way I only need to use shifting twice, once when I turn everything on and again when I turn everything off. No shifting is needed inbetween times.

As for the TOADTOG info, I'd have to do a search myself to find it for you.

crowfan · Post by **crowfan** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:30 pm

Thanks to both.

I've downloaded and installed the extender. Now I have to search for some useful beginner info on TOADTOGS.

Thanks!

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:36 pm

crowfan wrote:Now I have to search for some useful beginner info on TOADTOGS.

There really isn't any, and it's quite an intimidation tool to use at first. I would suggest that you search the forum for posts on the subject to see if someone has described the easiest way to set it up.

crowfan · Post by **crowfan** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:02 pm

The ToadTogs.txt file helped alot. Although it seems like alot of that's not necessary anymore with the latest upgrade. I'm going to keep searching and come back if I need more help.

Thanks!

gfb107 · Post by **gfb107** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:12 pm

Once you've figured it out, would you be willing to write up a TOADTOG tutorial? It'll be fresh in your mind, and you'll be coming from the TOADTOG newbie perspective. Just something to think about.

crowfan · Post by **crowfan** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:21 pm

I certainly would. I am a tech writer by trade so I should be able to come up with something decent.

I was just coming back to this thread anyway because my searching is not turning up anything useful to me. And Lord knows I can't figure it out on my own.

Eglass, would you be able to give me a quick step by step on how to set up a discrete On code for my TV, for example? You seem to have figured it out. Obviously it is done on the Spcl Prot Fns tab in IR.exe, but I have no idea what to do from there.

I clikced the Add button and saw the window that appears. In the Parameters region, I chose "ToadTog [MISC 1800]" from the drop-down, but I'm not sure where to go from there. I don't know what box to put the Power button in, and I'm not sure what do select in the drop-down lists at the top of the window.

Also, the volume punch through function seems to be gone since I installed the upgrade.

Eglass · Post by **Eglass** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:15 pm

You are correct alot of the info in toadtog.txt is out dated. I first followed the instruction in there and then I could not find my keymove. Then I figured out it ended up on the other tab.

Yes I will post about it later tonight when I can sit at my computer and look over my config and explain it better.

crowfan · Post by **crowfan** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:20 pm

I would really appreciate that. I really just need a quick explanation of what's happening and what I have to do to get it up and running.

Once I can get it running, and I understand what's happening, I'll try to write something up.

greenough1 · Post by **greenough1** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:31 pm

Once you have the extender, the vpt doesn't mean anything. You define keysets to be used in device selection. Also, with the extender a macro can be put on any button (at least almost any).

You might also check out the LKP (long key press) special protocol. I use this instead of shifting, e.g. short key press selects device; a long keypress on that button executes a macro.

Best,
jeff

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:00 pm

Just FYI, I have collected together some of the Toadtog files from the Yahoo group and loaded them over here:

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2852