Interface problems with 15-2116

wwwoholic · Post by **wwwoholic** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:23 am

I will upload everything... as soon as I finish tuning it up. It would be about 5 devices and a lot of extender use. As for now I struggle with some uploading annoyance - setup codes got changed in the remote somehow! Every time I upload the changes one or more codes are different from what I see on the screen. I thought it was some kind of communication error, but device upgrades work perfectly. Too localized problem to be caused by communication.

Mark Pierson · Post by **Mark Pierson** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:48 am

wwwoholic wrote:As for now I struggle with some uploading annoyance - setup codes got changed in the remote somehow! Every time I upload the changes one or more codes are different from what I see on the screen.

If you're saying that any changes you're making in IR aren't making it to the remote, it might be that you're not getting the proper reset after reading or writing the EEPROM. Make sure you see the double flash of the remote's LED after an upload (not IR's onscreen indicator). If you don't, disconnect your cable and see if that causes a reset to occur. If the remote doesn't reset after an upload, the EEPROM is not re-read for any new settings to take effect.

wwwoholic · Post by **wwwoholic** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:30 am

Not exactly... First, the LED on my remote does not blink for some reason after uploading at all! I was disconnecting remote in the beginning, then got lazy and now check everything in place. Second, IR does not have any problem downloading and uploading. Third, changes I make manually visible immediately after downloading, changes in IR visible on remote as well. Fourth and the weirdest one, sometimes setup codes got switched in the remote after uploading, while everyting else works fine, including latest device and protocol updates.
One guess - I've downloaded recent RDFs and changed the files while KM and IR were running. Then I closed and opened IR. Then I clicked "copy" in KM and it opened a second IR task in Windows taskbar. Task manager insisted that only one instance was running. All in all - I believe it was a combination of circumstances. Now I restarted everything, disabled AutoRun in KM and increased delay in IR. So far so good.

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 7:17 am

wwwoholic wrote:First, the LED on my remote does not blink for some reason after uploading at all! I was disconnecting remote in the beginning, then got lazy and now check everything in place.

Since you don't get a reset after upload, you should disconnect the cable before testing and you should make sure that causes a reset.

KeyMoves, Macros, Learned signals and upgrades that you upload are immediately available to the remote even without a reset. Changes (such as setup codes and VPT etc.) on IR's setup tab are not available to the remote until after a reset. (The distinction isn't actually based on which tab has the data in IR. It is based on how the data is used in the remote, but by coincidence ALMOST all data that needs a reset is on the setup tab and ALMOST all data on the setup tab needs the reset).

Mark Pierson · Post by **Mark Pierson** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 8:01 am

johnsfine wrote:KeyMoves, Macros, Learned signals and upgrades that you upload are immediately available to the remote even without a reset. Changes (such as setup codes and VPT etc.) on IR's setup tab are not available to the remote until after a reset. (The distinction isn't actually based on which tab has the data in IR. It is based on how the data is used in the remote, but by coincidence ALMOST all data that needs a reset is on the setup tab and ALMOST all data on the setup tab needs the reset).

I didn't realize that...

For some reason, I've always been under the impression that the EEPROM (in total) doesn't get re-read unless the processor is reset. However, when you think about it, Key Moves, Macros, and Learned Signals are just tables of data that the processor goes looking for (if necessary) when you press a button. Other settings like you mention Setup Codes, VPT flags, etc) are obviously stored in registers, and wouldn't get updated unless a reset occurs.

Hmmm... I guess you DO learn something new everyday!

wwwoholic · Post by **wwwoholic** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:45 pm

johnsfine wrote:... you should make sure that causes a reset.

And just how do I do that? It never ever blinks! I've checked the cable and it seems to be fine. As I understand "ops reset" in setup menu will clean the memory. Is there some kind of "soft reset" available? Or should I just short pins 5 and 3 for a moment? Or maybe reducing the resistor on RESET line to 500 Ohm will help PC to bring it down? On the other hand, upload should not be possible if it does not work as is.

wwwoholic · Post by **wwwoholic** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:06 pm

Another thought... What if I put another resistor, say 470K, between VDD and RESET pins to help the one in the remote to pull it up. Then I reduce R2 to about 500Ohm to help PC bring it down. I will disconnect the cable from PC first. Processor should restart more reliable, I guess?

Mark Pierson · Post by **Mark Pierson** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:14 pm

wwwoholic wrote:As I understand "ops reset" in setup menu will clean the memory. Is there some kind of "soft reset" available?

The reset we're talking about is the MPU reset that casues the EEPROM to be re-read, not initialized. It's the signal on pin 5 of the JP1 connector.

Before doing anything to your interface, why type is it, and what kind of PC are you using (desktop or laptop)? If you're using the Simple interface, what are the values of the resistors being used (the latest spec calls for 1k)? If you're using a laptop AND the Simple, the suggested diode is a Schottky 1N-5818, due to its better voltage tolerances.

jamesgammel · Post by **jamesgammel** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:24 pm

Before you start swapping resistors, etc. maybe it'd be a better idea to make 2 clarifications first. 1. I never saw which model remote this thread is referring to. 2. PC: desktop or laptop?

The led we're talking about it a red led on the top front of the remote which usually blinks when you select a device key, or press a function key that has a signal programmed to it; not the IR led that transmits IR in the air. If you have the remote laying on the keys so it's not laying on the cable, that red led will be down, and you'll never see it blink. Removing the cable generally means the remote is upside-down as well, so again you'd miss any flashes.

Properly running, when IRdoes an up/download, IR's red led in the lower left corner will fash, BUT the remote's red led should flash as well. While not quite right, if it doesn't, it *may* flash twice indicating a reset when you unplug the cable from the remote. To see this, obviously the remote has to be oriented so you can see the red led.

Does the red led flash when you select a device mode? In other words, is the red led working at all? You say it doesn't (ever) but don't specify whether your talking about just the up/download process, or any time (period).

Another way to force a reset is remove the batteries, press any key, and re-insert the batteries. The remote should flash twice (indicating reset) right when that last battery makes contact. Again, seeing that means having the remote right-side up.

Jim

wwwoholic · Post by **wwwoholic** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:54 pm

jamesgammel wrote:I never saw which model remote this thread is referring to.

RS 15-2116 (THE best one ever

)

PC: desktop or laptop?

desktop

The led we're talking about it a red led on the top front of the remote which usually blinks when you select a device key, or press a function key that has a signal programmed to it; not the IR led that transmits IR in the air. If you have the remote laying on the keys so it's not laying on the cable, that red led will be down, and you'll never see it blink. Removing the cable generally means the remote is upside-down as well, so again you'd miss any flashes.

duh!

Does the red led flash when you select a device mode? In other words, is the red led working at all? You say it doesn't (ever) but don't specify whether your talking about just the up/download process, or any time (period).

double duh!
Yes, the light is working. No, it does not blink before, during or after up/downloading, connection, reconnection etc. Yes it lays keys-side up.

Another way to force a reset is remove the batteries, press any key, and re-insert the batteries. The remote should flash twice

May be it SHOULD, but it DOES NOT. The only time it lights up is when it transmits something, or during learning/setup process. After I re-insert batteries it paints LCD black for couple seconds. I hope this means reset.

wwwoholic · Post by **wwwoholic** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:58 pm

Mark Pierson wrote:The reset we're talking about is the MPU reset that casues the EEPROM to be re-read, not initialized. It's the signal on pin 5 of the JP1 connector.

Mark, that's why I asked about shorting 5 and 3 in my previous message.

Before doing anything to your interface, why type is it, and what kind of PC are you using (desktop or laptop)? If you're using the Simple interface, what are the values of the resistors being used (the latest spec calls for 1k)? If you're using a laptop AND the Simple, the suggested diode is a Schottky 1N-5818, due to its better voltage tolerances.

Simple interface with 1K resistors and 1N5818 rectifier.

Mark Pierson · Post by **Mark Pierson** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:25 pm

wwwoholic wrote:that's why I asked about shorting 5 and 3 in my previous message.

You can do that, but then the only time the reset will occur is when the cable is unplugged from the remote. It would be best to have IR and the interface take care of that as intended.

RS 15-2116 (THE best one ever )

Hmmm.. my 8810w has more buttons than your 2116

Since I've never used a 2116, I don't know for certain whether the LED is supposed to blink upon reset (my guess is yes), so we'll have to wait and hear from someone with a 2116 to confirm.

Simple interface with 1K resistors and 1N5818 rectifier.

That's certainly the preferred interface design. 8)

Any 2116 users want to jump in here?

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:35 pm

wwwoholic wrote:RS 15-2116

That makes a big difference.

wwwoholic wrote:
The led we're talking about it a red led on the top front of the remote which usually blinks when you select a device key,
duh!

I don't have a 15-2116, but I think it DOESN'T HAVE that LED.

Instead a little symbol on the LCD blinks most of the times that a non LCD remote's LED flashes. The whole LCD does some strange things on the type of reset we're talking about.

Check those LCD behaviors with someone whose 15-2116 works right with a JP1 cable if it doesn't fit your results. (I don't have a 15-2116).

Mark Pierson · Post by **Mark Pierson** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:43 pm

johnsfine wrote:I don't have a 15-2116, but I think it DOESN'T HAVE that LED.

It does... and in the manual it says:

The red LED (Light Emitting Diode) blinks to show that the remote control is sending signals.

There's also an indicator on the LCD for which the manual says:

Also, one or more icons will appear in the LCD to indicate the following conditions: Morning or Afternoon Time, Low Battery, IR Signal Transmission

Of course, RadioShack forgot to mention which one does what with the JP1 interface!

vasqued2 · Post by **vasqued2** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:47 pm

"Paints the LCD screen black" is as good a description as any for what the 2116 does on a reset. I don't know if the red light blinks or not. I never paid attention to it.

It's pretty hard to miss a reset on the 2116 because it lasts a second or two and it's very visible.

David