Mixed protocol upgrade for a 2116? Possible? How?

semuther · Post by **semuther** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:31 am

I have been working on an upgrade for my RS 2116 to control a Toshiba (actually made by LG) 44NHM84 HDTV. I didn't see an upgrade file anywhere so I decoded a Pronto version using DecodeCCF. The result was two protocols and Device numbers listed NEC1, Device 4 and udb-TV, Device 56. I got the NEC1 functions to work but have no idea how to enter the udb-TV functions in Keymaster to make them work.

Can someone offer me some insight on this?

Thanks

Steve

Post by **The Robman** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:58 am

You're really asking 2 totally seperate questions...

1) How do you build an upgrade using the "udb-TV" protocol?
2) How do you combine seperate upgrades into a single upgrade?

The answer to #2 is to use the Device Combiner.

I don't know the answer to #1 as I've never heard of the "udb-TV" protocol before. Could you provide a link to the CCF file that you found.

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:02 pm

udb-TV, Device 56 means it is using an internal database licensed from UEI and using setup code TV/0056.

The database is licensed and protected to only be used on that model Pronto, so DecodeCCF cannot tell you the EFC or OBC number.

Rob's devices.xls file does confirm what you would guess from all this: That TV/0056 is NEC1 protocol, device 4.

You can get many of the EFC numbers for TV/0056 from Rob's Devices4.xls file.

The Robman wrote:You're really asking 2 totally seperate questions...

Good guess, but in fact the one real question there is how to get from generic function numbers indexing into UEI's licensed database to the EFC numbers.

The Robman wrote:use the Device Combiner.

I hope Steve now understands using Device Combiner is not appropriate in this case.

Since the 15-2116 includes TV/0056, one option is to skip building an upgrade entirely and just use a few KeyMoves to patch TV/0056.

If you build an upgrade you can get many EFC numbers from Devices4 and other EFC numbers from the non-udb decodes from that CCF file. If a few functions are still missing, tell us which ones because we have a few other resources for getting such EFC numbers.

The Robman wrote: I've never heard of the "udb-TV" protocol before.

I'm surprised you never saw that in DecodeCCF output before. But now you know.

semuther · Post by **semuther** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:15 pm

I found the CCF file here:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/fi ... rea=pronto

It's the only thing I could find for the Toshiba 44NHM84. Thanks for the comments from both of you. I understand that this is all really just one protocol and will do a little more research.

I was really scratching my head over the results that DecodeCCF fed me.

Steve

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:32 pm

I looked at that CCF and the one thing that is hard to interpret is that it has both power On and Power Off commands from the udb.

Sometimes the udb has entries for both On and Off but they turn out to both be the same power toggle command.

The data I could find quickly on TV/0056 doesn't show any discrete On or Off commands, just power toggle.

Rob has a Pronto, so I think he could find out directly what those signals are

Rob, in case you didn't know you can copy/paste udb signals between Pronto models with reasonable success rate using the 8000 format Pronto Hex:

On
8000 0000 0002 0000 000d 0038 0002 0000

Off
8000 0000 0002 0000 000d 0038 0001 0000

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:38 pm

Many EFC numbers are the same between that CCF file and the LG TV upgrade at
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... ile_id=921

But some functions aren't the same. I'm not sure whether that's really a good starting point.

semuther · Post by **semuther** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:40 pm

johnsfine wrote:I looked at that CCF and the one thing that is hard to interpret is that it has both power On and Power Off commands from the udb.

Interesting, the actual toshiba remote only has the one power button. I would assume a toggle function would be used.

Steve

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:49 pm

Typically the original remote has only power toggle, but the TV understands discrete On and Off commands as well.

This LG plasma lg-tv-mu50pz90v.zip has pretty much the same command set as your TV and has EFC numbers 172 and 176 for discrete On and Off.

Same with this Zenith plasma zen-plasma.zip

Post by **The Robman** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:58 pm

johnsfine wrote:Rob has a Pronto, so I think he could find out directly what those signals are

Rob, in case you didn't know you can copy/paste udb signals between Pronto models with reasonable success rate using the 8000 format Pronto Hex:

On
8000 0000 0002 0000 000d 0038 0002 0000

Off
8000 0000 0002 0000 000d 0038 0001 0000

I guess I should point out that my Pronto is the TS1000 version, the UDB wasn't introduced until the TSU2000 version.

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:24 pm

Perhaps this is off the point and perhaps I've missed some key bit of info in here, BUT...

with a 2116, can you not LEARN all of the functions on your OEM remote?

Build an upgrade, test unused OBCs, and you're rolling!

What's the heartburn here?

semuther · Post by **semuther** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:56 pm

Capn Trips wrote:Perhaps this is off the point and perhaps I've missed some key bit of info in here, BUT...

with a 2116, can you not LEARN all of the functions on your OEM remote?

Build an upgrade, test unused OBCs, and you're rolling!

What's the heartburn here?

It depends on how you want to spend your time. Fiddling with files or pushing buttons in "Learn" mode.

In this case, I am in learn mode.

Steve

Post by **The Robman** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:23 pm

semuther wrote:It depends on how you want to spend your time. Fiddling with files or pushing buttons in "Learn" mode.

I think Steve's point is that when you have the ability to gather all the info you need yourself (ie, by learning the buttons), it's better to spend your time doing this rather than spending ours.

semuther · Post by **semuther** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:40 pm

The Robman wrote: I think Steve's point is that when you have the ability to gather all the info you need yourself (ie, by learning the buttons), it's better to spend your time doing this rather than spending ours.

Yes, I meant that I would rather be in learn mode and not have my remote in learn mode...

Steve

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:35 pm

Since the udb decodes from DecodeCCF had so little exposure that even Rob didn't know what they meant, I'm glad Steve asked.

Learning from the original remote only covers the functions on the original remote.

Trying all the missing OBC numbers might not be safe and even if no harm is done it's easy to make mistakes and miss the significance of the TV's behavior.

Grabbing data from a variety of online sources is better. That does tend to need some expert help. I don't mind providing that help even when the combination of learning signals and testing missing OBCs could get the job done without help. Those experts who do want to limit such help to when it's really necessary will need an even greater insistence (than Rob has made so far) on providing basic facts with the question, so they can judge what help is really required.

Post by **The Robman** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:24 pm

Also, I should point out that the TV/0056 code uses a variation of the NEC1 protocol where the VOL+/-, CH+/- and FFWD/REW buttons all use the NEC2 protocol instead.

If you learn the buttons from your original remote and find that this is how you want your upgrade to perform, all you need to do is enter "08" in the parm field. (If you want to know why, read this.

Btw, I am familiar with the UDB in the Pronto, IIRC the hex strings start with a 9000+ number, but when it was taken out of context in a thread I didn't know if it was some protocol that I'd never heard of that DecodeIR knew about. That's why I asked for the CCF so I could see for myself.