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aberguerand Advanced Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 257 Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland |
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:39 pm Post subject: Decoding Minolta IR Remote |
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To make a long story short : I am looking for the IR remote codes of my Minolta DImage camera. It is a two buttons remote, that I do not posess. I have found the learned codes at remotecentral in a file for MX700 remotes.
According to instructions found on the IRClone site, I have converted the MX700 learned codes to Pronto format.
Unfortunately, these codes do not seem to be well decoded by DecodeIR.dll.
Here are the results from ccf2efc :
DEVICE(0000375B) "Minolta"
panel "Remote"
"Now" "Learned" (Gap-477-1119-32?):52.202:1 {34.CA.41.1}
freq=37.7KHz
0000 006E 0000 0022 008F 0048 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0036 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0168
"2 sec" "Learned" (Gap-504-1098-32?):52.202:0 {34.CA.41.0}
freq=37.7KHz
0000 006E 0000 0022 0090 0047 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0035 0013 0011 0013 0035 0013 0035 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0035 0013 0011 0013 0035 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0035 0013 0035 0013 0035 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0035 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0167
Does anybody have an idea on how to use these signals in my JP1 remote ?
Alain |
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johnsfine Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 4766 Location: Bedford, MA |
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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I think there is no protocol for this yet, so it would need Protocol builder.
It makes sense as three 8-bit bytes of fixed data (with values 52,202 and 65) and one 8-bit byte of variable data (value 1 for "now" and 0 for "2 sec").
The '0' bit is a burst of +478,-478.
The '1' bit is a burst of +478,-1433.
The "lead in" is a burst of +3821,-1911.
I think the rest of this in PB would be default or obvious. If that's too hard, ask and someone who knows PB will help. |
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aberguerand Advanced Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 257 Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland |
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:02 am Post subject: |
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John,
thanks for the hints on Protocol Builder. I successfully built the corresponding protocol. The protocol and the device upgrade have been uploaded in the file area of the JP1 group.
The protocol did not work a the first try. I had to analyse the generated signal by learning it with another remote. It happened that the signal was sent in MSB order, while I had assumed LSB. I did not find how to change it from MSB to LSB, neither in PB nor in KM. So I just redefined the fixed bytes with their values reversed and had to live with the fact that the two codes for the device would have hex values $00 and $80 instead of $00 and $01. Is there something I missed with that MSB <-> LSB issue ?
Alain |
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johnsfine Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 4766 Location: Bedford, MA |
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Except in some secondary aspects of combo protocols, PB doesn't get involved at all in the LSB vs. MSB question.
Hex commands are always MSB.
In most protocols, the OBC is LSB, so the translation from OBC to hex command must reverse the bits. KM or RM handle that in protocols where they know the OBC to hex command rules.
For custom protocols, I've never really understood how to tell KM the right OBC to hex command rules. When I do any more custom protocols, I'll use RM instead. RM's protocols.ini file is a simple text file, so when you want to use RM for a custom protocol, you can just create an entry in its protocols.ini file ans specify any translation you like between OBC and hex command. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21239 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:48 am Post subject: |
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johnsfine wrote: | For custom protocols, I've never really understood how to tell KM the right OBC to hex command rules. |
When you select "Manual Settings" in KM, a few new seletion boxes appear in the Setup sheet, one of which is labelled "Signal Style" where the choices on the drop down menu are:
LSB-COMP
LSB
MSB-COMP
MSB _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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jon_armstrong Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 1238 Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005 |
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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I went back to check because John's comments reminded me that, I generally don't use KM's translation when I use PB. Usually, that is because I am creating some signal with a lot of bits and frequently need more than three devices and more than two variable bytes.
To get beyond the three devices you must enter it as hex separatred by spaces. To use more than one variable byte then you can use "byte 2" but the value must be in hex. Reasonably, KM Master doesn't manipulate any bits entered in hex in fixed or variable data regardless of what "signal style" is selected. So far this all seems logical to me. In fact IIRC, I have done 5 variable bytes of data and KM faithfully passed those hex commands through to the device upgrade
The other issue (which has nothing to do with Alain's situation) is fixed or variable data using MSB with less than 8-bit bytes. When you define the width of a fixed or variable command, for example, 7-bits, AFAIK it always uses with the top most 7-bits in hex assuming that hex commands are always MSB. However, I had some dim recollection of MSB not always working correctly using the “signal style” feature.
I just ran a simple test using KM. Using manual settings and "Use OBC", I put 1, 2, and 3 in devices 1, 2, and 3 and OBC’s 1, 2, and 3 for those numerals in the functions tab. In 8-bits going through signal style:
LSB-COMP
LSB
MSB-COMP
MSB
works as expected. But, when I changed the bits/dev and bits/command both to four, then signal style MSB returns (all in hex) fixed data 10, 20, and 30 but 01, 02, 03 for the variable data. I didn't try all the other combinations of bit-widths.
I am not sure that this urgently needs fixing, but it does seem like more people are using PB and I thought I would point it out. _________________ -Jon |
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aberguerand Advanced Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 257 Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland |
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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I had noticed the LSB/MSB parameter, but when I changed it, it had no visible effect either on the protocol or the upgrade code. Modifying the "Signal style", "Bits/Dev" or "Bits/Cmd" parameters of "Manual Settings" do not seem to produce any change.
Is this a bug, or are these parameters only applied when a new protocol is pasted ?
Alain |
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jon_armstrong Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 1238 Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005 |
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Alain,
I just tried it again in KM Master v7.47 and got the same results as I posted. This time I pasted in a protocol from PB first and then changed the values of signal style and values changed as expected except for the MSB 4-bit case the same as above.
Is it possible when you put the values in from either PB or the functions that you "pasted" values from the other spreadsheets rather than paste special, values? Did you use OBC's?
Could this be the US/European conflicts in Excel for hex2bin, etc.? _________________ -Jon |
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aberguerand Advanced Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 257 Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland |
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Jon,
I am using KM version 7.56, the most recent available one.
I have reloaded the upgrade from a text file, so I do not think there is a problem of incorrectly pasted values. Regarding incompatibilities with my non-english version of Excel, this might be the source, but I do not know where to look for.
What should happen when the value of "Signal style" is changed ? Should the protocol, the upgrade, or both change ?
Alain. |
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Mark Pierson Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 3017 Location: Connecticut, USA |
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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aberguerand wrote: | What should happen when the value of "Signal style" is changed ? Should the protocol, the upgrade, or both change ? |
I just took a quick look at what KM is doing and it appears that only the Fixed Data calculations are affected by the Signal Style setting. There are also errors encountered when Bits/Dev are set greater than 8 using MSB or MSB-Comp.
When I get some free time, I'll have to dig into this a little further. _________________ Mark |
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jon_armstrong Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 1238 Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005 |
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Alain,
When you change signal style the device upgrade will change only.
I'll download v 7.56 to make sure nothing has changed but here is a cell by cell entry of what I did in my simple test:
Setup Tab
C5 > OBC
C8>Manual Settings
C9 >1
C10>2
C11>3
C18> should have the PID from your PB upgrade
Then:
Vary C20 and
C15 "Fixed Data" should change
In the Functions Tab
Set cells C3, C4, and C5 to 1,2,and 3
The hex values in Column F should vary
For example:
80 40 C0 LSB
01 02 03 MSB _________________ -Jon |
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aberguerand Advanced Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 257 Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland |
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Jon,
what I was doing differently was using EFCs rather than OBCs and directly entering "Raw fixed data" in C12 rather than in device numbers C9 to C11.
Doing it as you indicated works well and the "Signal Style" parameter is correctly applied in the upgrade.
Thanks for the help.
Alain (now trying to do the same thing in RM's protocol.ini...) |
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Eiffel
Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 23 Location: MD |
Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Alain,
I'm trying to use your protocol and device code to control my Minolta S414, using an RS 15-2116 remote, but can't get the camera to react.
I simply copied the upgraded protocol in the KM sheet found on the yahoo group and added it via IR to my remote. I also copied the device information, and pasted it into IR.
The remote does fire some IR codes when I press the CH+ or CH- keys, but nothing happens on the camera side, and I don't know where to begin investigating
Thanks in advance for your help
Eiffel |
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Nils_Ekberg Expert
Joined: 02 Aug 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Near Albany, NY |
Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Eiffel wrote: | Alain,
I'm trying to use your protocol and device code to control my Minolta S414, using an RS 15-2116 remote, but can't get the camera to react.
I simply copied the upgraded protocol in the KM sheet found on the yahoo group and added it via IR to my remote. I also copied the device information, and pasted it into IR.
The remote does fire some IR codes when I press the CH+ or CH- keys, but nothing happens on the camera side, and I don't know where to begin investigating
Thanks in advance for your help
Eiffel |
Did you also copy the protocol into IR? Can't tell from your note.. _________________ Nils
Files Section
Diagnosis File Section |
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aberguerand Advanced Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 257 Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland |
Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:37 am Post subject: |
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I presume, but maybe one of the guru will correct me, that the protocols generated with the Protocol Builder Excel sheet are remote specific. As the protocol in the KM update has been generated for an URC-6131 it might not work on your 15-2116.
You should try to download the Protocol Builder Excel sheet and generate the protocol for your remote. The protocol settings are to be downloaded from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Protocol%20Builder%20Files/Minolta_RC-3.txt |
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