Some General Concepts I can't find in the docs

[sajanisch]

Hi, Newbie here, I have read thru quite a bit of the getting started guides here and on the yahoo group. It's just not clicking for me, I think it comes down to a couple of basic concepts if someone can help me understand.

where I am at:
- purchased jp1 interface cable
- completely learned an unsupported device on my new remote
- used IR to download codes from remote to PC
- played around with both KeyMaster and RemoteMaster

what I don't understand:

when I save an "upgrade" it seems to be for a single device correct?
so how do I "build up" my remote with devices from multiple upgrade files?
In other words I want to learn from several unsupported devices using the original OEM's remotes, it seems I should be able to build up one file that gets downloaded by using IR to cover all of them?
Or do I build and download each file individually?

other stuff that I don't quite get:

is the protocol (main device, sub device) associated with the remote or the specific device, or the combination of the remote and the device it's controlling?

the movement of data/files between KM, RM, and IR. It seems some of this is done by copy/paste and some by saveing/opening of files. But I have not seen a summary of what data interchange is valid beetween which apps. I keep saving files and expecting to open them in another app and get errors.?

thanks, Scott

[johnsfine]

when I save an "upgrade" it seems to be for a single device correct?

An upgrade built and saved by KM or RM is for a single device.

so how do I "build up" my remote with devices from multiple upgrade files?

Combining to support multiple devices is done in IR.

In other words I want to learn from several unsupported devices using the original OEM's remotes, it seems I should be able to build up one file that gets downloaded by using IR to cover all of them?

You build multiple upgrades in KM or RM and save them in seperate files (in case you want to edit them later). You transfer the output of all of them to one eeprom image built up in IR, which you should save in yet another file and also upload to your remote.

Or do I build and download each file individually?

No. They all must be uploaded to the remote together.

is the protocol (main device, sub device) associated with the remote or the specific device, or the combination of the remote and the device it's controlling?

The protocol, device number, sub device number, and OBC number are all characteristics of a single command.

In the actual device and original remote, it is common for only the OBC to vary between commands and the other three values to be the same across all commands. But there are plenty of exceptions.

When you construct a new setup code in KM or RM, you typically give it a single protocol, device and subdevice, varying only the OBC between commands. But there are various combo protocols you can use to have more than one protocol or device or subdevice in one setup code.

When you construct a device mode in IR, you give it a primary setup code, so typically most of its keys are defined by the setup code. But you can use KeyMoves to define keys from other setup codes into that device mode.

the movement of data/files between KM, RM, and IR. It seems some of this is done by copy/paste and some by saveing/opening of files. But I have not seen a summary of what data interchange is valid beetween which apps. I keep saving files and expecting to open them in another app and get errors.?

Data is moved from KM or RM into IR only by copy/paste, not by opening a saved file. Data is moved from KM to RM normally by opening a saved file. There are no other paths to move whole files of data. KM can't open an RM file. Neither KM nor RM can get data from IR. IR can't open files other than its own. Partial data can be moved in either direction beteen KM and RM by copy/paste columns of function names and/or OBC or EFC data.

[gfb107]

You build multiple upgrades in KM or RM and save them in seperate files (in case you want to edit them later). You transfer the output of all of them to one eeprom image built up in IR, which you should save in yet another file and also upload to your remote.

Just to provide a few more details here. In general, a device upgrade it transferred to IR in (at most) two parts. One part is the device upgrade itself. This is added to the "Devices" tab in IR. A device upgrade makes use of a protocol to generate the signals to control the device. The device upgrade specifies which protocol it uses by PID (Protocol ID). Many device upgrades use a protocol that is built into the remote. In this case RM/KM won't tell you that you need to copy the protocol upgrade. Other upgrades will use a protocol that isn't built into the remote, so RM/KM will tell you to copy the protocol upgrade code into IR. This is done on the "Protocols" tab of IR.
Both the "Devices" and "Protocols" tabs allow multiple upgrades to be installed.

[sajanisch]

thanks for the help in understanding guys,
can't wait to try and experiment some more

you wrote:
"You build multiple upgrades in KM or RM and save them in seperate files (in case you want to edit them later). You transfer the output of all of them to one eeprom image built up in IR, which you should save in yet another file and also upload to your remote. "

maybe that's the missing link, where do I build up this "eeprom image" in IR?
is that the "raw data tab"?

is it possible to damage my remote when experimenting with this stuff?

thanks again, Scott

[sajanisch]

doh, never mind, I think I see it now,
multiple devices can be added on the device tab!

[jon_armstrong]

Just for clarification, you can add one device at a time in IR, but you must then download that image by "download from remote" before you add the next one. You can add more than one device upgrade at a time, but usually I build it up by adding one device at a time and then testing.

Each time you "upload to remote" you overwrite the entire EEPROM. You can't hurt the remote by experimenting. Save your last EEPROM image and you can always return to that state by opening that saved file in IR and then uploading that to the remote. The built in library is in ROM and you can neither read nor overwrite that.

[The Robman]

I think it helps to understand what each tool actually does.

IR.exe is the tool that you use to communicate with your JP1 remote. You can use this tool to...

1) Save your current settings on your PC.
2) Make changes to things like macros, keymoves, etc (which you could also do on the remote itself, it's just easier using IR.exe)
3) Analyse learned signals
4) Load upgrades.

So, the file that you save when you select File > Save in the IR.exe program is a copy of how your remote is currently programmed.

KM or RM are tools that you use to create upgrades. You only need one or the other of these tools, you don't need both of them (unless one of them doesn't quite support the type of upgrade that you're trying to build).

When you analyse the learned signals in IR.exe you will see the protocol, device code(s) and OBCs (or EFCs) used for each button. You would then follow the directions in "JP1 - How Easy Is It?" to build an upgrade, for ONE DEVICE. When the upgrade is finished, you can (a) save it in a text file, and (b) cut & paste it over to IR.exe to add to your current settings.

Once you've deleted the previous learned signals, you can repeat the process for the next device and cut & paste that upgrade over to IR.exe also.

You can same a KM or RM file for each device, which you can use later if you want to tweek them in some way. You should also load these upgrade files into the Yahoo file section for others to use.

The data in IR.exe will include all of your upgrades, all of your keymoves and all of your macros. This is the data that you will load into your remote.