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donphillipe
Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 51
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:43 am Post subject: |
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It's never easy is it .....
I changed both my SAT (PVR1) and CABLE (PVR2) device types from SAT to VCR as suggested and by doing so, I lost my volume and mute punch through. I tried setting both TV and Receiver to my receiver remote code and using IR to set my VPT Device on the 8810 to both of these in turn. Nothing I could figure out would return the VPT to send to receiver like worked when I was using upgrade types of SAT with all the key mappings.
My receiver works fine when selecting it off the remote, only VPT fails. A VCR remote code must not support VPT??????
I must have crossed this bridge before and forgot how I got here and why. The good news is I got lots of Move/Macro memory by going the VCR upgrade but lost my primary need, VPT.
Ideas? |
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gfb107 Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 3411 Location: Cary, NC |
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donphillipe
Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 51
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:47 am Post subject: |
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gfb107 wrote: | This is a known side effect of changing the device type of the device keys It is easily fixed using keymoves. You'll need keymoves for each device where VPT is broken( vol+, vol- and mute). |
re: "changing"
Are you saying that using "VCR" as a type does not support VPT or saying that if I create my upgrade code from scratch using VCR instead of SAT on this round that I will not lose VPT?
Thanks! |
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johnsfine Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 4766 Location: Bedford, MA |
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Each device key has a default device type.
Each setup code has a device type.
If you assign a setup code to a device key and the device type of that setup code does not match the default device type of that device key, then VPT won't work in that mode.
Any other consequences (vary by remote), of assigning a non default device type to a device key, will be much more subtle than that (basically no other consequences).
The advantages of choosing a device type that's a better fit for the set of commands you want usually outweigh the cost of two or three KeyMoves to replace VPT. So the usual answer is use the device type you want; Understand if VPT will be broken for that device mode; Replace VPT with two or three KeyMoves. |
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johnsfine Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 4766 Location: Bedford, MA |
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:58 am Post subject: |
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donphillipe wrote: | A VCR remote code must not support VPT??????
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Just in case it isn't clear yet. A VCR type upgrade can support VPT but only when assigned to a device key whose default type is VCR.
Your VCR device key of course has a default device type of VCR. On some remotes, some other device keys also have a default device type which is internally the same as VCR. But your SAT, CBL, or TV device keys have default device types which do not match VCR. |
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donphillipe
Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 51
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I have it thanks! However, is this documented and did I missi it but moreover the question is, who is working on "JP1 Programmers Bible", and ultimately, will we be able to lift it once it is published |
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donphillipe
Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 51
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:45 am Post subject: |
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This thread got chopped off another and after reading it, it no longer posts a clear question. Let me try to pick back up with the proper issue ......
Hardware:
- Pioneer VSX-D814 receiver (switches video to TV mon)
- VCR (use mainly for air-tuner since only have TV mon)
- DVD (cheap Norcent)
- Dish PVR 1
- Dish PVR 2
My problem is that I cannot seem to figure out how to get VPT running with my "altered" configuration. Before we talk "altered" let me define the "previous" configuration.
Previous configuration:
- Norcent DP300 KM file
- use custom upgrade 1775 SAT /Dish Network for SAT button on 8810W remote
- use custom upgrade 1776 SAT /Dish Network for CABLE button on "" ""
(everything works AOK, 8810W had VPT set to send signal to RECEIVER for all devices, which was Pioneer 165 protocol, #1023)
Problem 1:
- running out of memory
- got suggestion from expert to change 2 PVR upgrades to type of VCR instead of SAT so that keymove memory would be conserved
Solution 1:
- opened 2 PVR updates in KM
<<Altered configuration>>
- change PVR 1 (upgrade code 1775) from device type SAT to VCR
- change PVR 2 (upgrade code 1776 <same as above but with different unit code so PVR 2 talks on remote code 3>) from device type SAT to VCR
Problem 2:
- changed upgrade codes from SAT to VCR
- did this and lost VPT
Solution 2:
- received suggestion here to use KeyMoves to add volume control, sending it to the RCVR (I have failed at this)
- opened Key Moves tab in KM
- added 3 lines
- Vol Up; RCVR; volume up; 010
- Vol Down; RCVR; volume down; 018
- Mute; RCVR; mute; 011
- ?????? there were no more keymoves added to the Setup tab of KM (shouldn't these be added)
- tried Vol/mute after recopying the KM date to IR and still failed
- since above keymoves did not show up in KM and therefore not copied to IR, I added the same keymoves to IR
- VPT would still not work to RECEIVER when using SAT/CABLE
- VPT would still work on other devices
I am confused why the 3 changes added on the KeyMoves tab of KM were not added to the main KM Setup tab for copy to IR (never used this before so not sure how it should work). Since the 8810 allows setting VPT on/off for every device, a bit of logic made me think, OK if VPT is not working and I am attempting to addi the volume/mute as a keymove to the RCVR (rather than us VPT), that I should turn VPT off for SAT/CABLE. This did not work either .
I also tried turing off VPT for SAT/CABLE and adding the keymoves manually to IR and still no volume/mute would be sent to RCVR when SAT/CABLE selected.
Any ideas what is wrong? |
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johnsfine Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 4766 Location: Bedford, MA |
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:00 am Post subject: |
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donphillipe wrote: | This thread got chopped off another and after reading it, it no longer posts a clear question. Let me try to pick back up with the proper issue ...... |
Usually I complain there is too little information in a posted question. So I don't want to complain about too much. But you really posted so much information here it's hard to find the relevant part (where you still may have posted too little).
If you really can't tell what's relevant and what isn't, continue to post too much. But try to give some thought to what is relevent.
donphillipe wrote: |
- opened Key Moves tab in KM |
I don't want to even try to explain how to define the right KeyMoves in KM, because I strongly believe they shouldn't be defined in KM.
An upgrade defined in KM should portably define the functions of one device. It shouldn't define functions of other devices that you happen to want to use together with that device.
donphillipe wrote: | I added the same keymoves to IR |
That's where they should be added and if added correctly they would work. But I can't see where you described that process so I can't guess what you did wrong.
Just to review the basics of defining such a KeyMove:
1) Select the "Bound Device". This is a device mode, such as SAT in which you want the KeyMove to be usable.
2) Select the Key: Vol+, Vol- or Mute.
3) Select the device type and setup code number in which the desired signal is defined, or select a device mode (such as RCVR) that is already programmed to the right setup code.
4) Put in the EFC number for the desired function within that setup code, which may require some research into the definition of that setup code. |
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johnsfine Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 4766 Location: Bedford, MA |
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:10 am Post subject: |
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I don't recall whether I've suggested using the extender to you recently, so I will do so now.
You're primarily having trouble with the limited amout of KeyMove memory. The extender greatly increases KeyMove memory.
You're also having trouble with stupid restrictions built into the remote limiting the use of VPT. The extender has its own more flexible replacement for VPT, which is not subject to these stupid restrictions. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21238 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am Post subject: |
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donphillipe wrote: | This thread got chopped off another and after reading it, it no longer posts a clear question. |
There was more than enough info in the first post of this new thread for anyone to spot the problem. The issue with VPT breaking when you change the device mode is a very well known problem that has been known by almost everyone for years, certainly since long before even the JP1 group started.
For example, take a look at entry 2.5 in this old FAQ from 2000:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/ofa/faq.shtml
Btw, the reason I split these posts from the thread about the Dish PVRs is because they have nothing to do with that topic. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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