Trouble with 2117 RF and ReplayTV protocol

karog · Post by **karog** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:54 pm

I just got a few 15-2117 remotes to use the RF signaling.

I setup 3 TV's, a VCR, and a cable box and all work with both IR and RF.

I used KM to add the ReplayTV (Advanced) $0145 protocol.

I loaded ReplayTV.txt from Files>Device Codes > PVR into KM and set the remote to 15-2117, VCR, 2001, OBC, ReplayTV Advanced, 1, 1 and copied the device to IR.

The Replay device works with IR but NOT with RF even though the other devices still work with RF. Only the ReplayTV fails with RF.

I am stumped. Any ideas? Thanks.

Post by **The Robman** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:10 pm

Try loading the panasonic version of the Replay signal and see if you have better luck with that. Both the Panasonic and Replay signals work all Replay units, but the signals are completely different.

karog · Post by **karog** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:56 pm

The Robman wrote:Try loading the panasonic version of the Replay signal and see if you have better luck with that. Both the Panasonic and Replay signals work all Replay units, but the signals are completely different.

Thanks for the help.

The Panasonic ReplayTV does work with RF. But I don't see any codes in the Panasonic for Power On and Power Off which I need. Can that be solved?

And it is not clear how to do unit codes as I have 2 replays. Loading the Panasonic ReplayTV sets a Main Dev of 0 and a Sub Dev of 148 with OEM Code1 defaulted to 2 and Code2 defaulted to 32.

How would I set a unit code of 1 and a unit code of 2? In the ReplayTV (Advanced) I set Device Code to 1 and Unit code to 1 or 2.

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:27 am

The Panasonic code is alot less flexible than the standard Replay code, which is why we don't use it much. For starters, it doesn't support discrete on and off, and secondly it doesn't support unit codes for the older units, though I've been told that you can change the first device code from 0 to the unit code of your choice for newer units (I'm guessing that means 4000 series and up)

karog · Post by **karog** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:54 am

That's what I was afraid of. I need both discrete power and unit codes which makes the panasonic protocol useless to me. And I need the RF to make the 2117 more useful than the urc 8811's I have been using.

So if I can't somehow get the ReplayTV (Advanced) to work with RF, I guess the 2117's go back to ratshack.

Any idea why the panasonic protocol works with RF but the other does not?

BTW, I have 3000 series ReplayTV's.

Thanks for your quick and knowledgable responses.

karog

Mark Pierson · Post by **Mark Pierson** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:33 am

It's probably not the protocol causing the RF problems, but rather general "noise" that the RF command centers are noted for. There was a DIY fix posted over at RemoteCentral, but I can't post a link to it at the moment.

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:44 am

I don't think noise is to blame for this one as the RF extender works for all his other devices, I think it's got something to do with the RC6a protocol itself. John's the expert on the Philips protocols so maybe he has some input on why this is happenning. I have heard of this happenning before, which is why I knew to suggest the Panasonic protocol instead (I believe toots, over in the AVS ReplayTV forum, first ran into this).

As for the 15-2117 remotes, don't be so hasty to return them, even if they don't work for this particular application, they're still incredible value for just $15 each. The 15-2116 (without the RF extender) is now $32, so think of the 15-2117 as a 15-2116 with a $17 rebate. If you don't have a use for them, better to sell them or give them to friends rather than return them where they'll probably be picked up some non-JP1 user who doesn't know how to really use them.

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:58 am

There isn't much unusual about this protocol.

I don't know much about how the IR to RF encoding works, so maybe even these wild guesses are way off:

RC6 protocols have a high ratio of On to Off periods (around 50%) compared to typical protocols. They also are much harder to receive from leading-edge only data.

Weak power somewhere (in the 2117 batteries or in the AC to DC converter of the Base) could cause the signal to drop off early in long pulses, giving a pattern if you relearned the signals of having the leading edges correct and most of the rest wrong. That's the sort of pattern that receivers of most protocols deal with no problem and RC6 would have trouble.

Similarly, the base station might have some digital filtering to distinguish background RF from the real signal. The high On to Off ratio of RC6 might fool that filering. But that assumes some pretty stupid design in the base station, because such filtering would work much better on a time scale much faster than the 444 microsecond time scale of RC6.

I still would guess some operational (aiming the base station) or testing error rather than one of those long shot theories about protocol characteristics.

karog · Post by **karog** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:01 pm

johnsfine wrote:I still would guess some operational (aiming the base station) or testing error rather than one of those long shot theories about protocol characteristics.

john, thanks for your response.

My devices are all in my living room on the 1st floor of one side of my house. I can operate the VCR and Cable Box from the bedroom on the other side of the house on the 2nd floor via RF. So it is not a horrible environment for the RF.

I have also found that the ReplayTV (Advanced) works with RF but only within about 6 inches of the antenna.

So it would seem that the RC6 protocol is difficult for the RF and needs virtually perfect conditions which is unrealistic.

I guess I am out of luck on this.