USB-UIRT

ylaviolette · Post by **ylaviolette** » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:17 pm

split from:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16473

Wow, the investment was worth it. It works!

However, so far I only managed to get it working by programming the pronto codes in My URC-9910.

For some reason, the USB-UIRT doesn't work with the same pronto codes.

Any clue where the problem could be? Frequency support?

http://usbuirt.com/overview.htm

MEanwhile would you mind providing the easiest way to convert the learned IRScope signals to Pronto HEx like you did above?
I will try to educate myself and save you some newbie support time =)

I will do further testing and keep you posted as I really need to have this working on the USB-UIRT.

Thx

Post by **The Robman** » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:13 pm

ylaviolette wrote:For some reason, the USB-UIRT doesn't work with the same pronto codes.

Any clue where the problem could be? Frequency support?

http://usbuirt.com/overview.htm

I can't help you there, I don't know anything about the USB-UIRT. I suggest you take the Pronto hex that I gave you to the UIRT forums here: http://usbuirt.com/phpBB3/ Oh, never mind, those forums looks like they've been abandoned.

My guess is that the signal is just simply too long for the UIRT.

ylaviolette · Post by **ylaviolette** » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:00 pm

Ok. Works now. Since I have multiple emitters connected, the signal is much weaker so I had to get the emitter closer to the unit. All good.
Should be able to extract remaining codes & convert.

Just for my education, I guess this is an uncommon signal, therefore it doesn't replicate any standard protocol/device/sub device, right?

BTW, can you recommend another USB IR unit which supports pronto hex, multiple emitters and enough power to support long cable runs (15-20ft) keeping a decent signal strength?

Thanks again for your patience and support.
And thanks to the IRwidget =)

---------------------------------------------

PS: I've checked for alternatives to the USB-UIRT (my usage is very basic so I won't go the DIY/custom way) and found these 2 which are supported in my home automation software (Homeseer)

- IRTrans : https://www.irtrans.de/en/
- Globalcache : https://www.globalcache.com/

IR trans sounds like a good solution, pretty much aligned with my basic usage IE: one device blasting the same signal to multiple emitters in parallel) just not sure if it will offer better signal strength than USB-UIRT.

They have a "High-power IR Blaster" emitter; but is the signal strength more dependent on the emitter (light) or the power source (unit) ?

If the first is true, does that mean I could change my current USB-UIRT emitters and improve signal (light) strength or am I limited by the unit power source ? So far I haven't bothered too much purchasing "official" emitters and essentially recycled every emitter that was laying around in my shop (from old remotes and other projects)

Let me know what you think!

Barf · Post by **Barf** » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:25 am

Your captures are actually pretty bad: there are a lot of durations between 369 and 510; these are probably different measures of the "same" time. Normally the IRWidget provides fairly accurate timings. Note that the detector QSE157(?) has a very short range, half an inch (1 cm) for reliably readings. Keep lights away, in particular fluorescent light and sunlight.

Please try IrScrutinizer instead of IRScope. Things has evolved quite a bit since 2007

I own am USB-UIRT too, but that is essentially dead now. Main problem as I see it is that its API is built around a Windows DLL, dated some 10 years ago. Supporting it in another OS than (an ancient version of) Windows is therefore not really attractive. Lirc supported it many years ago, but in the transition to the new driver model, it did not make it.

BTW, can you recommend another USB IR unit which supports pronto hex, multiple emitters and enough power to support long cable runs (15-20ft) keeping a decent signal strength?

My favorite IR receiver and sender is my own project in conjunction with IrScrutinizer. It has many advantages over the IRwidget, but you have to build it yourself. (Among other things, the detector (TSMP58000) has a much longer range.)

Just for my education, I guess this is an uncommon signal, therefore it doesn't replicate any standard protocol/device/sub device, right?

It is not "standard", mainly because it is so long, and AC manufacturers tend to invent their own. There are a number of sites and projects that has analyzed the IR commands of different AC equipment. Possibly Google will find anything?

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:18 am

Barf wrote:Your captures are actually pretty bad: there are a lot of durations between 369 and 510; these are probably different measures of the "same" time.

I don't know that I agree with that. I found the times to be:

1 = +500 -1200
0 = +500 -400

which I know is unusual, but not unheard of. So basically, the ON time is fixed at 500 and the OFF time is multiples of 400, 3 units for ON and 1 unit for OFF.

Barf · Post by **Barf** » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:45 am

ylaviolette wrote: - IRTrans : https://www.irtrans.de/en/
- Globalcache : https://www.globalcache.com/

IR trans sounds like a good solution, pretty much aligned with my basic usage IE: one device blasting the same signal to multiple emitters in parallel) just not sure if it will offer better signal strength than USB-UIRT.

The firm is located just in the vicinity from me

They appear to be slowly dying, however, I guess they still sell. The one I would recommend is the Ethernet model, flash ("data base") and POE not essential. The hardware is somewhat "clunky", a high-power LED-array fixed to the housing, so considerable creativity is requred to take advantage of it. I have one, was mounted on a loudspeaker wall mount (Vogel's VLB-50). It can also capture signals including frequency measurements. IrScrutinizer supports sending through the UDP API. Note that the statement that their server software is open source is outright wrong and may not be available for your system, thus better to use the Ethernet model.

Global cache is probably the best alternative. The Flex is quite ... flexible, and can also quite well capture signals. (Don't use their iLearn software, use IrScrutinizer instead.) Avoid the GC-100 models; they do not have upgradable firmware and can only handle one simultaneous connection (IIRC). It is fully supported by IrScrutinizer, sending and capturing.

Using one stick-on emitter per device is normally better than a high power "blaster", unless you have very many devices.

ylaviolette · Post by **ylaviolette** » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:20 am

Barf:

Thanks for the feedback, the Flex sounds perfect, just hadn't found it as they have a much larger line of products.

a few questions:

- I agree that the best scenario is stick on emitters, however in some instances (like the AC discussed in this thread) the device is hard to reach (top of staircase) and a strong emitter would come in handy. However I am still unsure what drives/impacts the signal strength : power supply, unit quality, number of connected emitters, type of emitters, other? Based on testing done on my USB-UIRT, I can attach a lot of emitters in parallel but power degrades proportionally to the point I have about 3 feet of range. Fine for stick on but unusable for my AC.

- Can I reuse my existing emitters and cabling (as mentioned, recycled emitters from old remotes + standard small gauge 2wire cabling)

- Since codes are managed by my home automation server, what is the benefit of the flash database?

- What about the Wifi version, seems like a good option, any downsides?

- Does it support Pronto Hex as I have a ton of existing codes and not sure I want to redo everything (unless conversion is simple).

Thx for your help!

Barf · Post by **Barf** » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:50 pm

ylaviolette wrote: I agree that the best scenario is stick on emitters, however in some instances (like the AC discussed in this thread) the device is hard to reach (top of staircase) and a strong emitter would come in handy. However I am still unsure what drives/impacts the signal strength : power supply, unit quality, number of connected emitters, type of emitters, other? Based on testing done on my USB-UIRT, I can attach a lot of emitters in parallel but power degrades proportionally to the point I have about 3 feet of range. Fine for stick on but unusable for my AC.

Never connect diodes (like *-LEDS) in parallel!!! At least let them have their own resistor. Main parameters are the current and the radiation angle. If mounting things stationary, try something with a narrow angle like SFH4545 (10deg). And make sure they are 940-950nm.

- Can I reuse my existing emitters and cabling (as mentioned, recycled emitters from old remotes + standard small gauge 2wire cabling)

I strongly suggest using components with available data sheets. Using IRDA-Leds (890nm) is a bad idea... Suggestion SFH454X, X=4,5,6 (or equivalent Vishay TSAL6100 etc)

- Since codes are managed by my home automation server, what is the benefit of the flash database?

None, really. The manual says:

devices with the optional IR database offer additionally:
* 128k IR database (sufficient for approx. 1000-1500 IR commands)
* Use withour IRServer
*128k flash memory for own html pages

you definitely want 2, but to my knowledge, this should not require the flash. But do not take my word for it.

- What about the Wifi version, seems like a good option, any downsides?

I try to avoid WiFi for stationary devices.

- Does it support Pronto Hex as I have a ton of existing codes and not sure I want to redo everything (unless conversion is simple).

No. It is the job of the driver. Here is the one used in IrScrutinizer.

ylaviolette · Post by **ylaviolette** » Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:13 pm

Never connect diodes (like *-LEDS) in parallel!!!

Can you elaborate on the impact as I've been set up like this for 10+ yrs and it works flawlessly (except for the limited range). I assume the power supply has constant voltage and overload protection.

"The USB-UIRT has an internal 82-ohm current limiting resistor and transistor driver for each channel of output (L and R channels of the stereo jack)."

http://usbuirt.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=112

"The jack is STEREO and this was done so that those handy with electronics could have two separate current-limited outputs on the 1/8" jack.
The strength of the output jack *can* be increased but requires soldering in a different resistor."

http://usbuirt.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=305
http://www.usbuirt.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=820

So I guess I'll have to identify which leds are stick-ons and which ones are "blasters" since they probably drive more current. Then assign blasters only for long range ans ensure other ones are stick on only.

The USBUIRT integrated emitter is a separate blaster and therefore works perfectly whatever is connected to the jack output.

the Other option would be to change the onboard resistor but I won't probably go there and just purchase the Global cache if needed.

No. It is the job of the driver.

As you can see in this thread, I have spent hours decoding non-standard remotes which are never available in standard databases; therefore I need to have the ability to manually enter custom codes (ideally pronto Hex or something that can be converted from Pronto Hex). I don't want to rely on hit and miss learns, a proprietary format that needs to be relearned from scratch or even worse on some incomplete database.

here are the 2 available drivers for Homeseer:

https://shop.homeseer.com/products/home ... re-plug-in

https://shop.homeseer.com/products/ultr ... in-for-hs3

If what I seek is possible with Globalcache Flex can you give me a high level idea of the process to get from an existing Pronto code to something that would work in Homeseer ?

Thanks for your feedback!

Barf · Post by **Barf** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:40 am

ylaviolette wrote:
Never connect diodes (like *-LEDS) in parallel!!!
Can you elaborate on the impact as I've been set up like this for 10+ yrs and it works flawlessly (except for the limited range).

Last sentence reminds me of "The food is flawless (except for the taste)"

.Theoretically: LEDs are in general considered as voltage generators, and connecting these (unless identical) in parallel is simply a "degenerate circuit" in circuit theory. Leads to equations with no solutions. More pragmatically, the most likely do not go up in a puff of smoke, but (again, unless they are absolutely identical) you have no idea of what is really going on. Most likely, the current is not equally distributed. Just don't do it. At least use one resistor per LED.

The quoted passages all talk about different channels or such.

No. It is the job of the driver.
As you can see in this thread, I have spent hours decoding non-standard remotes which are never available in standard databases; therefore I need to have the ability to manually enter custom codes (ideally pronto Hex or something that can be converted from Pronto Hex). I don't want to rely on hit and miss learns, a proprietary format that needs to be relearned from scratch or even worse on some incomplete database.

You should really have a closer look at IrScrutinizer (and possbly also IrpTransmogrifier). It transforms "every" format of IR signals to its internal format (Java classes IrSignal and IrSequence); a driver for e.g. a device like GlobalCache basically takes an IrSignal/IrSequence, transforms it to the form for the device (without necessarily exposing that form) and sends it. (This is symbolized by the icon, the Babel fish.)

Homeseer is proprietary, non-free software; you have to ask them for support.

ylaviolette · Post by **ylaviolette** » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:43 am

Barf:

Since the device itself works very well, I will probably start by using a repeater; the only problem I'm trying to resolve is signal range. I guess this should do the job, as long as the provided emitters have a good range and/or if I can add "blaster" type emitters myself.

https://www.amazon.com/Repeater-Control ... =UTF8&th=1

Otherwise, I'll probably go the GlobalCache Flex + IRscrutinizer route.

Thx again.

ylaviolette · Post by **ylaviolette** » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:46 pm

Quick update: issue resolved with the USB-UIRT

now using the "zones" feature to minimize the number of emitters per channel and hacked the internal blaster.
works a charm and Homeseer driver supports the 4 zones.

- Zone 1 = All

- Zone 2 = external 1/8 jack: ground + tip (soldered 2 wires directly to the board to avoid bad contacts with the stereo jack)

- Zone 3 = external 1/8 jack: ground + ring (soldered 2 wires directly to the board to avoid bad contacts with the stereo jack)

- Zone 4 = stock = two internal blaster emitters in series; I unsoldered one of the two emitters and soldered 2 wires so I can now extend it to any location. Works a charm for hard to reach devices.