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USB interface does not work on ReplayTV remote
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Tommy Tyler
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 405
Location: Denver mountains

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:52 pm    Post subject: USB interface Reply with quote

Since I've never used a USB interface, and don't have one, I can't reproduce the problem here. I can tell you that the USB relies on batteries in the remote to power both the processor AND the EEPROM (via the jumper between JP1-1 and JP1-2). I took a refresher look at the PCB in my ShowStopper remote and it is pretty much another slice of cheese, with pin 8 of the EEPROM brought out to JP1-2 as usual. I had no trouble uploading or downloading with a serial interface. Did all you guys having trouble use my instructions, which show the connection between JP1-1 and JP1-2?

I hesitate to suggest this, but does anyone know for sure the USB interface works with 3-volt remotes? I know that at least some of the remote models I've heard mentioned as having no problem with USB are 6-volt remotes (e.g., 15-1994). Right off hand I don't see why that would be a problem, but first let's learn the scope of the problem. If it turns out to be specific to the Replay or ShowStopper remotes I'll look closer for differences in that remote's schematic. But right now I don't see any. If it turns out to be specific to 3-volt remotes I can't help unless someone wants to loan me an interface to work with.

Tommy
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Mark Pierson
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
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Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy Tyler wrote:
I hesitate to suggest this, but does anyone know for sure the USB interface works with 3-volt remotes?

My USB works well with the URC-6131, which is a 3-volt remote.

Quote:
If it turns out to be specific to 3-volt remotes I can't help unless someone wants to loan me an interface to work with.

I've got my original USB design sitting here collecting dust. I'd be more than happy to donate it in the name of science! Wink
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Tommy Tyler
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
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Location: Denver mountains

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it looks like a standoff. ddsmith60 and digitize might very well be the only members who have tried USB on Replay/ShowStopper. There could be many other members out there who are using USB without problems, possibly even on Replay/ShowStopper, but we'll never hear from them because they have no reason to be reading the "Hardware" folder. Such is life.

Here's what we've got: ddsmith60 and digitize can't get USB to work on Replay/ShowStopper remotes (3-volt), and Pierson can't get USB to work on his 2103's (?-volt). The USB is known to work with 8810's (6-volt), 1994's (6-volt) and 6131's (3-volt). That seems to eliminate voltage as a player.

It will take a few days for me to get my hands on a USB. Stand by for further news.

Tommy
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Filebug
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 74
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are my USB findings.

Replay 5040 remote - Doesnt work with or without batteries.
RS 1994 - Works only without batteries
RCU 810 - Works only without batteries

Tommy, let me know if you need a usb interface. I'll send you a test one.
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Filebug wrote:
RS 1994 - Works only without batteries

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but my 1994 works WITH and WITHOUT batteries. So do my 8810w, and 2104 (all 6-volt remotes; not that it matters when they are WITHOUT batteries). To complicate Tommy's life, the 6131 (3-volt) also works WITH and WITHOUT. Confused
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ddsmith60



Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To All,
These remotes are strange birds sometimes. My mother has two 2104 remotes setup exactly the same way. One will not work on the parallel interface unless the batteries are removed and the other one works fine with the batteries installed. I like Mark have used the USB interface and uploaded and downloaded to a 1994 with the batteries installed. It worked fine. The error that Digitize refers to. Is that a normal message for unable to communicate using the USB interface. I will say that I didn't try pulling the batteries on the Showstopper remote on my last attempt with the jumper installed. I think I'll wait for Tommy's analysis to see if we can resolve this. I am up for additional messing around if my help is needed.
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Filebug
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 74
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update - I've tried 2 different 1994's and both will only work without batteries.
Also:
RS 2117 - Works only without batteries
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Tommy Tyler
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:31 pm    Post subject: USB Problems Reply with quote

OK, OK, I stand corrected. Apparently USB does work (at least sometimes) without batteries. I shouldn't have "guessed" at this with no USB experience.

For the benefit of those who crave knowledge and seek to be enlightened, (where'd everybody go?) here's the explanation again for why a remote can sometimes be uploaded and downloaded without batteries. Chips like the EEPROM usually have built-in protection diodes from each input line to V+ and ground. The polarity of these diodes is such that they are normally not conducting, and therefore have no effect on the device's operation. But if an input is subjected to an unusually high or low voltage, such as might result from a static electric discharge, one or the other diode will conduct the voltage harmlessly to V+ or ground.

So when a remote has no batteries, and the EEPROM is sitting there with no voltage, if one or more signal lines in the interface cable have a few volts on them, that voltage passes through the protection diodes and sort of "pumps up" the V+ pin of the EEPROM so the chip comes alive.

More after I get my USB interface, hopefully this week.

Tommy
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Tommy Tyler
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
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Location: Denver mountains

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the Joker would say, I have given a name to my pain, and it is Delcom. Just an update to let you know I've duplicated the problem, can't download my ShowStopper either. You guys did omit one important detail. I don't remember anyone saying it passes the interface check OK even though it won't download. Still digging.

Tommy
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ddsmith60



Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Tommy,
I forgot to mention that. I figured you would have to get the USB cable to troubleshoot it anyways and knew you would find this out.
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Tommy Tyler
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Location: Denver mountains

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:30 pm    Post subject: USB Problem Reply with quote

I think the problem with failure to download a ShowStopper (Replay) remote with the USB Interface is in the IR software. Apparently any remote with a 1KB EEPROM (such as a URC-7200 Cinema 7) gives the same result. Mark Pauker is tied up currently, but as soon as he gets some time he'll look into it and I'm sure publish a revision.

Tommy
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mpauker
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bad...

The USB interface was only working with remotes that had 2K or larger EEPROMs. I've posted a new version of IR (4.02) that should fix this problem. I'd appreciate it if any of you with large EEPROMs could test this to make sure that it still works with them.

-- Mark
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ddsmith60



Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark,
That has corrected the problem. Now all my 1994's and the showstopper remote upload correctly. This probably resolve the issues some were have with other remotes communicating via the USB cable. Thanks for the good work resolving this. I sure digitize appreciates it more than me.
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Filebug
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 74
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob or Tommy,

At the end of the USB docs, it says batteries are needed for the interface to function. My experience and others is that the USB interface will only work with the batteries removed on some remotes. Could you update the documentation on the yahoo site to reflect that the USB interface may need the batteries removed from the remote to function?
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