Setting up Toadtogs on a URC-6440

JezW · Post by **JezW** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:06 pm

Hi Rob, thanks for tidying up the other thread.

I've managed to get ToadTog working with my amp and have programmed the following device buttons:

Device: Extra
Button: Red
Function: Forceoff

Device: Extra
Button: Green
Function: Forceon

I've put the Forceon into a macro on the Extra button with a LKP, so that when the Extra device button is held down, it turns the amp on.

So in Long keys, I put "Green".

This turns the amp on. However, I turn the amp off with the normal device power button, ie. press Extra, press Power, then the remote seems to get confused. If I only use the red and green buttons then the LKP on the Extra button keeps working fine.

What am I doing wrong? Can the remote account for the normal power toggle button as well as the red and green buttons I have programmed? Or do I need to make sure I only ever use the ToadTog commands to operate the amp?

Thanks

mdavej · Post by **mdavej** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:18 pm

Read Rob's TOADTOG writeup. Tells you how to handle this. But the short answer is yes, always go through the toadtog logic, never use the power toggle command directly.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/wiki/index.php?title=ToadTog

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:04 pm

You have 2 choices here, depending on how you think you will use the remote.

If you would like the freedom to use the POWER button and have the remote not get confused, you will need to program a ToadTog on it also, only instead of using ForceOn or ForceOff, you will use Toggle, this way the remote will flip the ToadTog bit when you use the POWER button.

The other option is to leave the POWER button "as is" and only use it to re-sync the remote.

If you do put a ToadTog on the POWER button, you will need to have another button that is still the "raw" power button, as you will need to invoke it from the ToadTog POWER button. Typically people use "shift cloaking" here and use the shift/POWER button as the raw one. Regardless of which button you use, you will want it to be accessible to the user as you will need to use it to re-sync.

JezW · Post by **JezW** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:19 pm

Thanks Dave, I read through it and saw what I was missing, which is the Power toggle that Rob is talking about.

I tried to put the power toggle on just the power button and thought I had bricked my control lol. It stopped working until I removed the batteries, plugged it into the PC and put them back in.

Thanks for the info Rob, I was really trying to avoid shift cloaking!

I'll give it a go now

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:22 pm

Shift cloaking is a free gift from the remote, you don't actually have to do anything to make it happen.

For example, when you loaded the upgrade for your amp, you included the power button, which put the code on both the POWER button and the shift/POWER button automatically.

When you program a ToadTog you are basically programming a fancy keymove, so if you program it to the POWER button, you are only overlaying the unshifted version of the POWER button, the shifted version is still there ready for you to use. So, in the ToadTog you can refer to shift/POWER as the function that gets executed in each case (ie, ON and OFF).

If you look at my 15-1994 file you will see that I have a Power toggle ToadTog on the TV's POWER button. I couldn't use shift/POWER as I have a global macro on that button, so i programmed the raw power function to the SLEEP button.

JezW · Post by **JezW** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:33 pm

Thanks Rob, that makes sense.

And...it worked!

One other question - how did you rename a Key DiscreteOn and DiscreteOff in those pictures on the ToadTog instructions?

My remote is almost finished!

JezW · Post by **JezW** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:15 pm

I've made a ToadTog for my two amp inputs (which work!) but I don't think it's worth it because It'll get too confusing keeping track of them (there are more than two inputs but I only use two)

Here's my progress

I long press DVD and the following happens:

TV turns on
Selects HDMI3
Amp turns on using ToadTog
Computer changes the audio output (using Flirc and "Audio Switcher")
TV changes to watch movie mode

Not sure if that's asking a bit much but I'll see how it goes.

This remote and extender are brilliant

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:59 pm

JezW wrote:One other question - how did you rename a Key DiscreteOn and DiscreteOff in those pictures on the ToadTog instructions?

Have you heard of "phantom buttons"? These are buttons that don't really exist, they use button codes that are not otherwise accounted for either by real buttons or by the remote's firmware. In this case, I didn't add DiscreteOn, the person who created the RDF decided to add it. I just looked at the 6440 extender RDF and see that there are a bunch of phantom buttons included, so you could re-name a couple of those. In fact, I'm surprised the discrete buttons aren't in there already.

JezW · Post by **JezW** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:43 pm

Yes, I've been using them but I can't work out how to rename them!

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:26 pm

JezW wrote:Yes, I've been using them but I can't work out how to rename them!

Ah, ok, you just need to edit the RDF. It's in the RDF folder in your RMIR folder and it's called "2570A1 (URC-6440 Extender v1.04).rdf"

You can edit it using Notepad or Wordpad or any other text editor.

Look for the section called [Buttons] then look for Phantom14 and Phantom15 and just replace the text with DiscreteON and DiscreteOFF.

JezW · Post by **JezW** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:37 am

Worked perfectly. My macros make sense now

mdavej · Post by **mdavej** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:13 am

Just keep a backup of your version of the RDF. It will get overwritten next time you do a full install of RM.

JezW · Post by **JezW** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:48 am

Thanks Dave!

Oh, I've been meaning to say - thank you for your recommendation of Potplayer over VLC. It's much nicer to use and works well with my remote.

JezW · Post by **JezW** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:52 am

Hi Rob, I've decided to try and setup some macros so that the amp input changes as well as my amp turning on. So both use ToadTog.

Here's the issue -

My TV button (LKP) does the following:

(Watch TV without amp)

Sky Discrete On
HDMI1
TV Discrete On
Amp ToadTog Off
WatchTV Mode

If the TV is off already, then it doesn't receive the discrete signal for HDMI1 (because it's starting up). However this is not a problem because I just do another LKP on the TV button and then it switches the input to HDMI1.

Now...the issue I'm having is because like my TV, my amp takes a few seconds before it turns on. I have written the following macro for my LKP PVR button:

(Watch TV with amp)

Sky Discrete On
HDMI1
TV Discrete On
Amp ToadTog On
Amp ToadTog Input 2 (right)
WatchTV Mode

What happens here is that the remote sends the ToadTog "right" signal, but if my amp is turning on then it doesn't receive it. If I then LKP the PVR button again, the remote doesn't send the Input right signal a second time, because it thinks it's already sent it.

I'm just wondering what you would do here, and if there are any solutions not involving another button or manual operation.

Thanks for all your help

Post by **The Robman** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:13 am

Late response, just spotted this post. The important thing when using toadtogs is to have some un-tracked buttons that you can use to re-sync. And you have to decide, based on how you use the device, how best to do it. For example, with your amp, if you have macros select the inputs, do you ever expect to need to use the INPUT +/- buttons? If not, program them as un-tracked buttons, meaning when you use them you don't change the toadtog settings. If you do expect to use them, then put a toadtog tracker on them and put the raw input buttons somewhere else.