Newbie question: simple steps for missing keys?

[mdavej]

You search for a file by mfg name here first, download what you think might be the closest match according to the model number or file date. The lookup tool is then used to find a built-in setup code that will work with the EFCs you found in the file. The lookup tool doesn't lead to the file, the lookup tool leads to a compatible setup code.

I think there are links to all the gory details on the wiki site at the top of this page.

Here's what you wrote a couple of messages earlier ...
"I used the lookup tool to search for your code and noted the resulting protocol and device/subdevice. Then I did a file search for samsung."

T'ain't what you just wrote -- I'm going to read the wiki (and other things referenced there) again slowly, but what you just wrote now squares better with how I understand things work. But be patient with me, if you can -- it'll take awhile!

Sorry for the confusion. Eferz said it very well, but I'll try to clarify a bit more. The lookup tool didn't lead to a file. The other info you gave me lead to the file (you said you had a samsung and were using setup code xyz). The lookup tool confirmed I was on the right track (same protocol info). In general, the lookup tool is used primarily to find a compatible setup code. In your case, we already knew the code, so we used the lookup tool to find the protocol info so that we could throw out any files that didn't match. We still had to find the file using educated guesses because we currently have no way to go directly from lookup tool to file.

This gets a little OT, but brings up something I hadn't thought of before. I think Rob keeps a list of all the files searchable by protocol, mfg, etc. Maybe Vicky used this to help build the lookup tool database. It would be nice if we could search the file section directly by protocol, without having to download Rob's list and without Rob having to maintain it. Maybe have everyone who uploads a file provide the protocol info or have some code that looks in the file and fills it in automatically.

Doing this would be extra work for everyone and would really only benefit those who don't use JP1. Does anyone think this is useful or worthwhile and if so, how to implement it?

[TMPLee]

Okay, test time to see if you understand the process. Let's pretend you purchased a brand new 37" Hanseatic Television model# CTV 7037. How would you add the "Hanseatic CTV 7037" upgrade into your remote?

LOL! The machine that I can run RM on is upstairs, so I'll check that file out sometime later. But, roughly, I'd load the file into RM and see what protocol and device codes it uses and then use LookUp tool to see if there is a setup code for them on my remote. (I know that when you load something into RM you can pick a remote and it will generate a new window for that remote -- I haven't investigated all of what that does.) Anyway, if the tools can't find a setup code for that TV that works with my remote I'd have to go out and get a JP1 cable (1.3, I think, for my remote; I forget) and upload a whole new configuration to it. What I don't know, because I haven't read those details yet, is whether I have to generate an upload file that covers all the devices I have (let's suppose the remote already has setup codes that work for all the other devices) or if I only need to upload the files for the Hanseatic TV. (I'm assuming that if I look at the remote manual I won't find a setup code for that TV, otherwise you wouldn't have posed the question.)

Thanks for bearing with me. I hope this has been useful for others. It has for me.

[vickyg2003]

This gets a little OT, but brings up something I hadn't thought of before. I think Rob keeps a list of all the files searchable by protocol, mfg, etc. Maybe Vicky used this to help build the lookup tool database.

I used one of Rob's list to find the protocol name and device numbers of the various setup codes.

It would be nice if we could search the file section directly by protocol, without having to download Rob's list and without Rob having to maintain it. Maybe have everyone who uploads a file provide the protocol info or have some code that looks in the file and fills it in automatically.

Doing this would be extra work for everyone and would really only benefit those who don't use JP1. Does anyone think this is useful or worthwhile and if so, how to implement it?

Real time information would be hard to maintain.

[eferz]

LOL! The machine that I can run RM on is upstairs, so I'll check that file out sometime later. But, roughly, I'd load the file into RM and see what protocol and device codes it uses and then use LookUp tool to see if there is a setup code for them on my remote. (I know that when you load something into RM you can pick a remote and it will generate a new window for that remote -- I haven't investigated all of what that does.) Anyway, if the tools can't find a setup code for that TV that works with my remote I'd have to go out and get a JP1 cable (1.3, I think, for my remote; I forget) and upload a whole new configuration to it. (I'm assuming that if I look at the remote manual I won't find a setup code for that TV, otherwise you wouldn't have posed the question.)

Not bad. Well played, Ted. Well played. I see my dastardly plan has been foiled by your witty intelligence. I'm glad your understanding thus far, has gotten you this far. But, will you survive another test? Buwhaahahaahaha!!

What I don't know, because I haven't read those details yet, is whether I have to generate an upload file that covers all the devices I have (let's suppose the remote already has setup codes that work for all the other devices) or if I only need to upload the files for the Hanseatic TV.

Alright, well... now you're entering a different territory and that's why tools like IR.exe and RMIR exists. Actually the Remote Master package includes RMIR and RM.

Every remote has a certain amount of devices it supports and most of those devices have an associated button. Some remotes, like my Insignia, has four physical device buttons (TV, DVD, STB, and AUX) but has eight different device associations (dev1, TV, dev3, AUX, STB, DVD, dev7, dev8). Your Comcast remote has three devices which are directly associated to three buttons; Aux, TV, and Cable. By default, when you press on one of these buttons the "profile" of your remote changes and that's how pressing play after the one of these three buttons may do different things for separate devices. An easy way to summarize in layman terms of what RM does, is it manages each device profile.

RM by itself isn't actually able to alter your remote. In order to upload or download data from your remote, you need to use either IR.exe or RMIR. These two tools enables the communication between the remote and your computer, as well as the manages your remote's overall image configuration. First thing we recommend for people with a brand new JP1 cable is to download an image of their remote. This can be used as a backup in case you ever want to revert back. But, it can also be used to augment your current configuration without having to disrupt your current settings.

Let's say for example, you wanted to add the "Hanseatic CTV 7037" upgrade to your remote. You would first download an image of your remote or open a previously save copy. Then you would go into the Devices tab and click "New". This will open the Device Upgrade Editor which is more or less RM only without its command bar.

At this point, you would click on the "Open" button select the CTV-7037 file then make any customizations to the Layout or Button tab then click "Ok". The next prompt you'll get is to associate it with device "profile", so if AUX was not configured then you would choose that. Now you have an image of your remote merged with the Hanseatic upgrade. Save a copy of the image to your computer for safe keeping then upload it into your remote. Voila, in less than a few minutes you would have added, customized, backed up your remote.

That's just scratching the surface of what our tools can do to make it more convenient. Our senior experts can do much more with it than I can. I even suspect that Vicky uses it to transform her remotes into little robots to do her household chores .

[TMPLee]

My intelligence can probably handle anything -- the question is whether my persistence can! While I still might want to explore getting my TV's to dance a jig (I'd like to find discretes for all the input selections and zooms), right now I'm more focussed on the DVD players. Both are Sony's, a few years apart, and their remotes have quite a few more functions than work on the Comcast remote; both do work the major functions with setup code 20533. I don't remember the model number of the one upstairs, but the one downstairs is DVP-S360. There is no S360 in the files section, but there is an S330 and an S560 plus about 60 others. Other than looking at those two and seeing which seems closest, how would you go about deciding which of the other 60 I should look at?

[eferz]

My intelligence can probably handle anything -- the question is whether my persistence can! While I still might want to explore getting my TV's to dance a jig (I'd like to find discretes for all the input selections and zooms), right now I'm more focussed on the DVD players. Both are Sony's, a few years apart, and their remotes have quite a few more functions than work on the Comcast remote; both do work the major functions with setup code 20533. I don't remember the model number of the one upstairs, but the one downstairs is DVP-S360. There is no S360 in the files section, but there is an S330 and an S560 plus about 60 others. Other than looking at those two and seeing which seems closest,

For Sony you have another piece of reference, Sony infrared (IR) remote control codes. Think of this as a master list of all known IR codes used by Sony. It lists all the OBC's for an array of Sony Devices. Not every command is programmed on every device but you can use it to find codes which are but not included on your remote. It is very handy when using in in tandem with just about any upgrade that is compatible with your DVD player(s). Including the one I found a match and recorded its IR signals with the JP1 tools to create the respective files.

• ICT file: https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=10683
• RMDU file: https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=10684

how would you go about deciding which of the other 60 I should look at?

If the above files didn't exist, then the best thing to do is just start downloading random files which seem most likely to match. That's when you have to download random files and check to see if it is compatible or not with your device. There really is not much of a science to picking them out, try models numbers which are close to yours and with the most recent upload dates is often helpful. But, the process is much like playing playing Go Fish, which cards do you often ask for first?

[mdavej]

There is no way to decide which is closest other than your familiarity with those models. With a little research on the sony site you can determine that the 360 and 560 are in the same family and have the same original remote, therefore they will have identical codes. So the 560 upgrade will be a perfect match. With a little more research, you'll find that all sony blu-ray players use the same codes, so any sony blu-ray upgrade will work. Later models may have a few additional functions here and there.

Having said that, there's really no need to go to that much trouble. If I were a non-JP1 user like you, I'd just make a list of the few missing functions I wanted and download a few files to see if I could find them. I wouldn't really try to find a perfect match for every possible function. It's too much work to put every function on the remote by hand anyway.

But I still think if you value your time, a cable is a very worthwhile investment. Are all the hours you've had to spend setting up a couple of devices worth $30? If you had a cable, you'd have probably had your remote completely set up in less than an hour. Plus you could easily add activity macros and devices that aren't built-in to your remote.

[TMPLee]

Ah, more secret knowledge (the Sony IR codes list) -- this is as bad as the Gnostics! Yet one more, I hope, quick question -- other than getting a cable and downloading it from the remote, is there any way to populate RM with the codes/functions/button assignments etc that come built-in to my remote? I thought perhaps that the RDF's had that information, but on closer examination it looks like they don't. Yes, the LookUp tool seems to have most of that information, and in a form that can be pasted into RM (I haven't tried it) but that only lists codes & functions, not button assignments. Yes, most functions have a natural button to be assigned to (say, on my remote), but some don't -- again, without downloading what's actually in my remote are there any files or tools that give the button assignments that are built in to the remote? (Yes, I can understand that might vary some over time.) Again, thanks for all the comments when I'm sure you all have much better things to do.

[eferz]

Ah, more secret knowledge (the Sony IR codes list) -- this is as bad as the Gnostics!

It's not much of a secret as it is a portion of the wealth of information that's dispersed to different sections of the website. We're trying to improve our wiki pages so that this information is easily consumable or at least easier to find but that takes time.

Yet one more, I hope, quick question -- other than getting a cable and downloading it from the remote, is there any way to populate RM with the codes/functions/button assignments etc that come built-in to my remote?

The JP1 cable with RM/RMIR will only allow access to the current configuration of your remote as it is stored in the "E2" area. This is actually a name left over when the writable area on the remotes were stored on EEPROMs. But, our tools only has access to a portion of the flash storage. The part which has the "reference" data for the layout of buttons for the different setup codes is outside of the reach of our typical tools.

Btw, the function names are not stored in the remote. That's reference information is only provided by our tools to make it easier to users. When you download the data from your remote, the codes are assigned to the default button names which are listed in the RDF file. That's why we always recommend making a backup of the IR file before uploading it into your remote.

I thought perhaps that the RDF's had that information, but on closer examination it looks like they don't.

The Remote Definition File (RDF) has the information which allows our tools to distinguish the differences between remotes. It also has the necessary references to disassemble the downloaded data for our tools to provide a human readable display. Additionally, its responsible of assembling the data to upload the configurations back into the remotes.

Yes, the LookUp tool seems to have most of that information, and in a form that can be pasted into RM (I haven't tried it) but that only lists codes & functions, not button assignments. Yes, most functions have a natural button to be assigned to (say, on my remote), but some don't -- again, without downloading what's actually in my remote are there any files or tools that give the button assignments that are built in to the remote? (Yes, I can understand that might vary some over time.) Again, thanks for all the comments when I'm sure you all have much better things to do.

The Lookup Tool is about as close as your going to get. We're lucky that information is even available. And yes, the EFC tables are formatted so you can use it to copy and paste it into RM.

[TMPLee]

I'd say you (collectively) are doing a very good job of putting this place together -- I can appreciate all the effort that you've all had to go through to collect all the information that is here -- probably never with any especial expectation to get it into a completely organized form.

No, I didn't expect that the remotes "knew" the names of the functions. But it does surprise me that you can't directly extract from a remote what its "factory" configuration is -- so that you'd know (without having to do lots of experiments) that, say, under setup code 1463, EFC 00123, is bound to key "1", and generates OBC 71. (I'm making up numbers here.) Given that you can't do that, I am even more impressed!

[eferz]

so that you'd know (without having to do lots of experiments) that, say, under setup code 1463, EFC 00123, is bound to key "1", and generates OBC 71. (I'm making up numbers here.) Given that you can't do that, I am even more impressed!

Just for clarification sake, EFCs are used as a method to input information. This is described in the following Wiki page, "EFCs and OBCs. So, it wouldn't be bound to any key. Your example statement would be better written as, "Setup Code 1463's has its "1" button bound to OBC 71 which would be translated to/from EFC 00123".

[TMPLee]

so that you'd know (without having to do lots of experiments) that, say, under setup code 1463, EFC 00123, is bound to key "1", and generates OBC 71. (I'm making up numbers here.) Given that you can't do that, I am even more impressed!

Just for clarification sake, EFCs are used as a method to input information. This is described in the following Wiki page, "EFCs and OBCs. So, it wouldn't be bound to any key. Your example statement would be better written as, "Setup Code 1463's has its "1" button bound to OBC 71 which would be translated to/from EFC 00123".

OK, I've now been better educated. When I read http://www.hifi-remote.com/wiki/index.p ... s_and_OBCs I got the impression that decoding EFC's into OBC's took place each time a key was pressed; not that it matters particularly, since one can't directly enter OBC's into a remote with its keys, I understand better what's going on. But am I right, still, that you cannot directly extract the OEM manufacturer's binding of keys to OBC's from a JP1 remote with your tools -- that at best you have to use something like the IR Widget to capture the IR signal on each key press and see what comes out?

[vickyg2003]

But am I right, still, that you cannot directly extract the OEM manufacturer's binding of keys to OBC's from a JP1 remote with your tools -- that at best you have to use something like the IR Widget to capture the IR signal on each key press and see what comes out?

Yes, you can only extract the setup codes assigned to the various device buttons, any macros or keymoves that have been set up, and upgrades that were loaded into the e2 area. Getting the information for the "1", "power", "play" button from a built in setup code is not possible with the tools. That's why the lookup tool was created, to give you a way to get that information about the "1", "power", "play" etc.