metechs blinds
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something2do
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metechs blinds
I had bought 5 sets of Metechs roller blinds that have an ir remote that I had planned to use with AHP and BVC through a usb-uirt . The problem is I can get the uirt to control my tv but not the blinds. It seems to read the code and transmit but the blinds pay no mind to my efforts. I am closer to a dumb-ass than a gen-ass and dont understand if it is a frequency problem or ?? . If there is another solution or any suggestions you could give I thank you in advance. Yes I have tried BVC and usb-uirt forums but they will not let me register, dont know if there active.
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vickyg2003
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Oh the Metechs were EXTREMELY PICKY about the timings!!!!!!! It looks like a F12 protocol, but there is absolutely no leeway at all in the timings.
Read this thread.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13374
Is there any text file that is used to control the USB-UIRT so we could see what you are sending?
Read this thread.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13374
Is there any text file that is used to control the USB-UIRT so we could see what you are sending?
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something2do
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These are from bvc capture
open pronto format -
0000 006C 0000 000C 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 08B0
close -
0000 006C 0000 000C 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 09D4
stop-
0000 006C 0000 000C 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 09D0
open pronto format -
0000 006C 0000 000C 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 08B0
close -
0000 006C 0000 000C 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 09D4
stop-
0000 006C 0000 000C 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 09D0
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vickyg2003
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Okay, those timings are not right.
Try these from our Metech's thread,
OPEN
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 002D 002D 000E 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 04E8 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 002F 000E 0010 002D 000E 002D 0010 002D 002F 000D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 0C7D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 002F 000E 000E 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 04E8 0010 002D 0010 002D 000E 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 000E 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 0E14
CLOSE
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 002D 000E 002D 002F 000E 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 04E8 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 002F 000E 0010 002D 000E 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002D 000E 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 0C7D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 002F 000E 000E 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 04E8 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 002D 000E 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 0E14
STOP
0000 0072 0000 0030 0010 002C 0010 002D 0010 002D 002D 000F 0010 002D 0010 002D 002D 000F 0010 002D 0010 002D 000F 002D 0010 002D 0010 04F3 0010 002D 0010 002C 0010 002D 002F 000F 0010 002C 0010 002D 002F 000F 000F 002D 0010 002D 0010 002C 0010 002D 0010 0C99 0010 002C 0010 002D 0010 002D 002D 000F 0010 002D 0010 002D 002D 000F 0010 002D 0010 002C 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 04F3 0010 002D 0010 002C 0010 002D 002F 000F 000F 002D 0010 002D 0010 002C 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002C 0010 002D 0010 0E34
Try these from our Metech's thread,
OPEN
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 002D 002D 000E 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 04E8 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 002F 000E 0010 002D 000E 002D 0010 002D 002F 000D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 0C7D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 002F 000E 000E 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 04E8 0010 002D 0010 002D 000E 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 000E 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 0E14
CLOSE
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 002D 000E 002D 002F 000E 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 04E8 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 002F 000E 0010 002D 000E 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002D 000E 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 0C7D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 002F 000E 000E 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 04E8 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 002D 000E 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002B 0010 0E14
STOP
0000 0072 0000 0030 0010 002C 0010 002D 0010 002D 002D 000F 0010 002D 0010 002D 002D 000F 0010 002D 0010 002D 000F 002D 0010 002D 0010 04F3 0010 002D 0010 002C 0010 002D 002F 000F 0010 002C 0010 002D 002F 000F 000F 002D 0010 002D 0010 002C 0010 002D 0010 0C99 0010 002C 0010 002D 0010 002D 002D 000F 0010 002D 0010 002D 002D 000F 0010 002D 0010 002C 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 04F3 0010 002D 0010 002C 0010 002D 002F 000F 000F 002D 0010 002D 0010 002C 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002C 0010 002D 0010 0E34
I couldn't find an exact match for METechs in the Logitech Harmony Database. However, I was given a set of consolation options for the Kallox CL-200T, CL-200T2M, and CL-2004M which seem to mimic the same nomenclature that METechs uses for their products. I wonder if that's just another brand name which is sold outside of the US? Anyways, I recorded all three profiles and even through they appear to be the exact same capture, I decided to upload them anyways due to the precise timings indicated by Vicky. Hope it helps.
- ICT Files
- Kallox CL-200T http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=10162
- Kallox CL-200T2M http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=10163
- Kallox CL-200T4M http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=10164
Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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something2do
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Nope these do not work either . I have read the post and tried most of the the codes posted without success. Is there another free program that I can use to test these? Maybe bvc is not capable of reading or sending this ir code . I apologize for going grade two on you but most this is over my head.
F12 .ict .ir
F12 .ict .ir
Is BVC the acronym for Bill's Voice Commander and AHP equal ActiveHome Pro? Btw, the ICT files are the recordings using IR Scope software and the IR Widget hardware. That's how we are able to communicate different infrared signals.something2do wrote:Nope these do not work either . I have read the post and tried most of the the codes posted without success. Is there another free program that I can use to test these? Maybe bvc is not capable of reading or sending this ir code . I apologize for going grade two on you but most this is over my head.
F12 .ict .ir
Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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vickyg2003
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The first test you can do is look at the output from the USB-UIRT with a digital camera (cell phone camera is digital). Then we can tell if its reading the pronto hex and executing it. This is a 4 frame signal. You should see a flickering with three noticibly longer gaps where the frames break.something2do wrote:Nope these do not work either . I have read the post and tried most of the the codes posted without success. Is there another free program that I can use to test these? Maybe bvc is not capable of reading or sending this ir code . I apologize for going grade two on you but most this is over my head.
F12 .ict .ir
Also we do know that miniscule timing problems can cause a problem with MeTechs and the Pronto Hex I posted isn't pristine. Perhaps we can clean that up, but it will be hard because we can't measure this. But if you want to trial and error it, I think its doable.
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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something2do
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vickyg2003
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Hmm If you pass the camera test we might be able to find some timings by trial and error, but this is one PICKY IR receiver.
I've reduced the timing pairs to A's and B's and then replaced them with timing pairs that might work
Open
0000 0073 0000 0030 A A A B A A A B A A A 0010 04E8 A A A B A A A B A A A 0010 0C7D A A A B A A A B A A A 0010 04E8 A A A A A A A A A A A 0010 0E14
------------------------------------------
A= 0010 002D
B= 002F 000E
Open with timings that add to 3D
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 04E8 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 0C7D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 04E8 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 0E14
------------------------------
A= 0010 002E
b= 0030 000E
Open with timings thAt add to 3e
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 04E8 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 0C7D 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 04E8 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 0E14
------------------------------
A= 0010 002F
B= 0030 000F
Open with timings that add to 3f
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 04E8 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 0C7D 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 04E8 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 0E14
---------------------------------
A= 0010 0030
B= 0031 000E
Open with timings that add to 40
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 04E8 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0C7D 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 04E8 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0E14
-------------------------------
A= 0010 0031
B= 0030 0011
Open with timings that add to 41
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 04E8 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0C7D 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 04E8 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0E14
I've reduced the timing pairs to A's and B's and then replaced them with timing pairs that might work
Open
0000 0073 0000 0030 A A A B A A A B A A A 0010 04E8 A A A B A A A B A A A 0010 0C7D A A A B A A A B A A A 0010 04E8 A A A A A A A A A A A 0010 0E14
------------------------------------------
A= 0010 002D
B= 002F 000E
Open with timings that add to 3D
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 04E8 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 0C7D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 002F 000E 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 04E8 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 002D 0010 0E14
------------------------------
A= 0010 002E
b= 0030 000E
Open with timings thAt add to 3e
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 04E8 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 0C7D 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 04E8 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 0E14
------------------------------
A= 0010 002F
B= 0030 000F
Open with timings that add to 3f
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 04E8 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 0C7D 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 04E8 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 0E14
---------------------------------
A= 0010 0030
B= 0031 000E
Open with timings that add to 40
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 04E8 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0C7D 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 04E8 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0E14
-------------------------------
A= 0010 0031
B= 0030 0011
Open with timings that add to 41
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 04E8 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0C7D 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0030 0011 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 04E8 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0031 0010 0E14
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something2do
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A= 0010 002E
b= 0030 000E
Open with timings thAt add to 3e
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 04E8 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 0C7D 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 04E8 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 0E14
Seems to be a winner
b= 0030 000E
Open with timings thAt add to 3e
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 04E8 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 0C7D 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0030 000E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 04E8 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 002E 0010 0E14
Seems to be a winner
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something2do
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These seem to open as well
A= 0010 002F
B= 0030 000F
Open with timings that add to 3f
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 04E8 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 0C7D 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 04E8 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 0E14
---------------------------------
A= 0010 0030
B= 0031 000E
Open with timings that add to 40
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 04E8 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0C7D 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 04E8 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0E14
A= 0010 002F
B= 0030 000F
Open with timings that add to 3f
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 04E8 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 0C7D 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0030 000F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 04E8 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 002F 0010 0E14
---------------------------------
A= 0010 0030
B= 0031 000E
Open with timings that add to 40
0000 0073 0000 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 04E8 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0C7D 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0031 000E 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 04E8 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0E14
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something2do
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vickyg2003
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I've got so many numbers up there, I'm not sure which 4 sets of numbers you mean. If its the A= 0010 002F, those were just some numbers that I used for substitution in the forumula.something2do wrote:Thank you for putting your time into this.
What do the first 4 sets of numbers control?
The analysis software that optimized the signal misunderstood the structure. So you got the first frame of the instruction correct, but then the lead-out time was axed. -_-__-_- This signal has two frame close together, then a little longer gap and then two frames with a zero to terminate. Its a heck of a protocol.Why would my learns come up so different?
So I suppose you'd like to be able to close your blinds too.
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Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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something2do
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:59 am
- Location: saskatoon