JP1 Remotes

I have a URC-8206 (Kameleon 6) remote, which I'm trying to build a device upgrade for.

Each of the 6 "device modes" on this remote illuminates a different set of buttons that can have functions assigned to them. There is also a row of 4 coloured buttons (a la Fastext) at the bottom of the remote, which are outside of the illuminated area. Using the remote's IR learning function, it seems to be possible to learn functions on these coloured buttons in any of the device modes.

I'm trying to build a device upgrade using the DVD device mode which includes the coloured buttons. However, the RDF file for this remote (and also Key Map Master) seems to say that the colour buttons are not available in DVD mode.

Is this a mistake in the RDF file (and KM), or a limitation of the remote? If the latter, is it possible to assign "learned" functions to these buttons using the JP1 tools? Unfortunately, learning from the original remote is not an option...

Thanks,
J.

jnut wrote:I'm trying to build a device upgrade using the DVD device mode which includes the coloured buttons. However, the RDF file for this remote (and also Key Map Master) seems to say that the colour buttons are not available in DVD mode.

Is this a mistake in the RDF file (and KM), or a limitation of the remote? If the latter, is it possible to assign "learned" functions to these buttons using the JP1 tools? Unfortunately, learning from the original remote is not an option...

The color buttons are not part of the button map in DVD mode and can only be programmed as key moves.

The Key Moves sheet in KM just says "Key Moves Not Allowed" and all the boxes are greyed-out - so I assume that this remote doesn't support key moves?

In KM 9.07 it allows keymoves on the color buttons. All I see grayed out is the shift-buttons not the base button.

It also allows them in RM and IR. Check the version of KM that you have and also make sure you have the latest RDF.

jnut wrote:The Key Moves sheet in KM just says "Key Moves Not Allowed" and all the boxes are greyed-out

I'm not seeing that grayed-out behaviour by selecting the 8206 in KM 9.07.

And, you don't need to use the Key Moves sheet. If you want to assign functions to the color buttons, you can do it right on the Buttons sheet and KM will automatically create the key moves as part of the upgrade.

AND..... for the CBL, SAT, TV, PVR, VCR device types, you can assign functions right in the upgrade without using keymoves, so you've got a problem with your version of KM, I think.

Just downloaded v9.07 of KM but there's no change. Key Moves Not Allowed, and the colour buttons are greyed out in the Buttons sheet.

So if it's not the remote that doesn't allow key moves, could it be the IR protocol that my device upgrade uses?

I gather it's quite an unusual one - Protocol ID 015E (TWTV protocol); 6 bytes of fixed data and 4 bytes for each OBC / EFC. The FAQ on the OFA web site mentions this particular device specifically as having some limitations, and learning from the original remote does not work.

Am I out of luck with this one??

jnut wrote:So if it's not the remote that doesn't allow key moves, could it be the IR protocol that my device upgrade uses?

I gather it's quite an unusual one - Protocol ID 015E (TWTV protocol); 6 bytes of fixed data and 4 bytes for each OBC / EFC.

Since KM doesn't even list that protocol or PID, how are you trying to set it up in KM? Do you have an upgrade file?

If it really does use 4 bytes of command data, KM doesn't currently support more than 2 bytes, which is why you're getting the error message (I just tested to confirm this).

The FAQ on the OFA web site mentions this particular device specifically as having some limitations, and learning from the original remote does not work.

Can you post a link to this FAQ?

Mark Pierson wrote:If it really does use 4 bytes of command data, KM doesn't currently support more than 2 bytes, which is why you're getting the error message (I just tested to confirm this).

...and the basic reason KM does not support more that 2 bytes in a keymove for the URC-8206 is that the remote itself will only process a maximum of 2 bytes in a keymove.

Ok I'd better explain what I'm trying to do or this won't make much sense...

I have a Pace NTL cable box which is already supported as standard by the Kameleon, using setup code 1068. This code gets a special mention on the OFA website:
http://www.oneforall-int.com/?pag=50&faqitem=21

However, the CBL device mode on the URC-8206 has a really stupid annoying feature: the buttons are split between two "pages", which you have to toggle between using the "scroll" button. e.g. the TV and Info buttons are on one page and the direction arrows and OK button are on the other. These are the buttons that I use all the time, so I'm forever having to press the Scroll button to navigate through the cable channels, which is a PITA.

To get around this problem, I'm trying to build a modified device upgrade which uses the DVD device mode instead of CBL. This mode has all the buttons on a single page, and the available button names still match pretty well with the original remote. I found the necessary device upgrade in the File Section - Pace_DITV1000.txt, listed under "Pace cable IRDA (CBL/1068)". I built my customised upgrade in KM and it works perfectly - except that the colour buttons aren't available!


So anyway, it looks like Key Moves are not possible with this protocol, so do I have any other options? I was wondering if it's possible to program the remote with "learned" codes for these buttons using JP1 tools, even though the IR learning circuitry in the Kameleon itself can't cope with such a complex, high-speed protocol?

jnut wrote:Ok I'd better explain what I'm trying to do or this won't make much sense...

That would have helped in the first post

Also, a link to the file in question would help.

So it appears that whoever built that manual protocol for the S3C8+ processor actually ported the official UEI protocol, and it is already resident in the 8206 Kameleon (used by your built-in code CBL/1068).

But the commands are still 4 bytes long, so apparently NO keymoves are possible on the 8206 utilising this protocol, so the only way to get functions assigned to a color button is to select a device type that includes the color buttons (i.e. not DVD).

Have you tried VCR or PVR modes? They include the color buttons as part of the button map, but I don't know if they allow the other functions you want to appear on the same page/screen.

Yeah sorry, I wanted to keep it brief and not bore everyone with the background that I didn't think would be necessary (and I didn't realise the key moves issue was caused by the protocol). Thanks for putting up the link to the upgrade file too, I should have thought of that.

I considered other device modes but DVD is the only one that will do what I want.

Is there really no way that my idea with learned functions would work? As I said before, it IS possible to learn onto the colour buttons in DVD mode - but just not from this particular Pace remote. If this limitation is caused by the IR learning hardware (e.g. too low a sampling rate to properly capture the signal), then it might be possible to place the data into the Learned Functions area of the EEPROM using the JP1 tools instead. Sound feasible?

Wait for a REAL expert to reply,

...but in 4+ years of lurking and participating here, I have NEVER seen ANY indication that the capability (or inclination) exists to generate the required data string to replicate a UEI remote's learned signal format from known protocol/device/OBC data. In this case, with a really foreign protocol, I suspect you won't find anybody interested in or capable of cracking that nut.

One can certainly take a LEARNED signal and copy it over from one remote to another, but to create the code from scratch? Uncharted waters, I suspect.

I notice that despite Mike England's comments about KM limiting you to 2-byte keymoves on the 8206, IR imposes no such restriction. It costs you nothing to try creating the keymoves directly in IR. (i.e. add your DVD device upgrade, and create Keymoves calling on it, and select "Hex Cmd" instead of "EFC" and paste in the desired 4 byte Hex string defined for the corresponding function and see if it works.) Although if the remote can't handle it, I suspect they won't work.

Capn Trips wrote:Wait for a REAL expert to reply...

Here I am!

While it's true that the newer remotes use a different format of keymove that is not compatible with protocols that use more than 2 bytes of variable data, there is a workaround that you can use.

The new keymove format added support for true "key copy" keymoves where the data in the keymove is the keycode of the button copied rather than the EFC. Therefore, to program the coloured buttons what you need to do is create a 2nd upgrade that includes all of the functions that you wish to program using keymoves, then in IR program "key copy" keymoves that assign these functions to the buttons of your choice. To do this, select the "key" radio button in IR when you are programming the keymove, this will cause the EFC/Hex text entry box to change into a drop down menu which you can use to select the button you are copying.

Capn Trips wrote:I notice that despite Mike England's comments about KM limiting you to 2-byte keymoves on the 8206, IR imposes no such restriction. It costs you nothing to try creating the keymoves directly in IR. (i.e. add your DVD device upgrade, and create Keymoves calling on it, and select "Hex Cmd" instead of "EFC" and paste in the desired 4 byte Hex string defined for the corresponding function and see if it works.) Although if the remote can't handle it, I suspect they won't work.

While IR will let you do this, and the remote will accept it, it simply won't work. The newer JP1.2 remotes only process the first two bytes no matter how many bytes are in the keymove.

The Robman wrote:

Capn Trips wrote:Wait for a REAL expert to reply...

Here I am!

Rob knows what he is talking about here, so follow his advice. 8)
(The same work-around is also applicable to 2-byte functions on the older generation URC-6131 & Atlas DVR remotes.)