JP1 Remotes

Hello all.

I've just started playing w/ my new JP1 cable. I was wonderring if I could get some help zeroing in on what direction to take. I'll start w/ my goals:

I have a Toshiba TV (CZ3V51), VCR (M752) & DVD (SD1700).
I have a Hughes HDVR2 DirecTivo sat. box.
I have an Onkyo HT-R500 RCVR/AMP.

I want to use TV to turn on the TV & Amp & set the correct inputs for watching Satellite TV. (also turn off the DVD & VCR if on)
I want to use the DVD button to turn on the DVD player & TV & Amp & set the correct inputs. (turn off the VCR if on)
Likewise w/ the VCR.
Perhaps have the RCVR/AMP button set things up to listen to the radio.. but that's not priority.
I was thinking the power button would turn everything off or turn the selected device on w/ a LKP..

I've got most of the basic stuff mapped on the remote, but I'm not sure what direction I have to take to get the device buttons to do the macros I'm looking for. It sounds like ToadTog is my only option to get the ON/OFF stuff since I have mostly Toshiba stuff. The Onkyo has a discrete OFF but apparently not discrete ON. Are Extenders the only way to do the device button macros as described above?

So far, I've played w/ IR.exe & KM a bit, I pasted a new RCVR device in to IR from KM, w/ one little item I added as a test, but I'm far from savvy w/ either of those yet. I'm not sure where to start for the extenders. I DL'd ExtInstall.exe but I'm pretty foggy on wher to go next.

Thanks for any help.. I'll be trying more stuff, so hopefully I'll figure at least some of this out on my own, but some BTDT knowledge would be much appreciated!

Alright, this is exciting for me.. I know, old hat to most of you, but hey..

I got the ToadTog working to give me a pseudo-discrete ON/OFF for my TV (currently using the PLAY and STOP buttons). However, I tried to set the TV device button to do the ON and it didn't work. I get the LED flash when I hit the TV button, but no power on. I set up the TV key function the same as the PLAY function the only difference, obviously being, the KEY. So why does one work and the other not? Is the TV ToadTog being overridden by the standard function of simply switching the remote to TV mode? If so, how do I get around that?

The 8910 is one of the few remotes that allow you to assign macros to the device keys WITHOUT use of an extender, BUT you need the extender for ToadTog (Damn you, Toshiba!), so it ought not make a difference for you.

The easiest way for someone to try to diagnose your problem is for you to upload your IR file to the diagnostic area and provide a link to it here, with appropriate descriptions accompanying either the file, the post, or in the IR file itself, which has LOTS of notes fields.

Without seeing your IR file, my first guess would be tha you have the default macro assigned to your TV button (created by the extender installation proces), which simply assigns all of the keysets to the TV mode, and any ToadTog keymove function you create on the same button is overriden by the macro.

OK, here's the current file:
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3476
Like the description says, not much works right now, but hopefully there's enough there to show what I'm trying to do.

Right now all the DEVICE buttons that I'm using act like they're running thru a macro when I hit them and leave the remote on TV mode. Nothing's happening w/ the TV or any components tho.

I also want to do LKP/DKP on the DEVICES to set the remote to specified modes w/o the macros, but havent' started on that yet.

I have some minimal home automation (HA) stuff and controls for that in the ir file. I would like the HA commands to always revert the remote back to whatever mode it was in.. currently my macros go to Home_Theater mode.

For my macros, I'm using DEV_* instead of the straight devices (DEV_TV instead of TV, etc.), is this correct? I only went w/ this cause it looked like others were doing it in some samples I've seen.

One off-topic item: The only stuff I've seen about which way the plug goes on the JP1 cable has the cord trailing toward the bottom of the remote. Mine is the other way around. I have to plug it in w/ the cord trailing up (over the batteries)...

Quick look:

Are you ACTIVATING the extender?

i.e. after uploading to the remote, is the FIRST thing you do a press of the Power button?

if not, your extender is not activated, and none of the extender functions will work.

Second quick comment, you need to include your phantom 1 keyset assignment macro in the sequences for powering on your TV, or DVD, or whatever (with likely an additional 2-step sequence of DEV_AUD, SET_VOL). Otherwise you will not control what device is assign to your remote's buttons after selecting a device.

I am activating the extender. W/ the phantom1 keyset, it already has SET_VOL_KEYS, should I add DEV_AUD before that? Are the rest of those keys (SET_TRANS_KEYS, SET_CHAN_KEYS, etc.) doing anthing w/o DEV_AUD or similar preceeding them? Also, what is SET_LCD?

Should phantom1 be the first command, last, or does it matter?

What is the difference between TV and DEV_TV?

I'm assuming DEV_AUD corresponds to RCVR/AMP. Is this correct?

I tried adding the phantom1 (w/ DEV_AUD inserted before SET_VOL_KEYS) and it didn't seem to help matters. I'm now getting what apears to be an endless loop - have to remove the batteries to stop it.

Thanks for your help..

OK, I think I got the answer to the TV vs DEV_TV question in this thread:
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewt ... ecc5223af7
Thanks in, um, retrospect....

Just to make sure I've got it, TV would set the remote to TV mode until another device mode command was received. DEV_TV would set the remote to TV mode ONLY WITHIN THE MACRO and the mode would revert to what it was previously as soon as the macro ended. Is this correct?


As far as the Phantom1 command, if I have the following:

MacroToWatchTV:
dev_tv
discreteON
dev_aud
discreteON
sat
phantom1

and

Phantom1:
set_trans_keys
set_chan_keys
set_menu_keys
dev_aud
set_vol_keys

hitting the button assigned to MacroToWatchTV should turn on the TV & RCVR, set the TRANS, CHAN & MENU keys to SAT, set VOL keys to RCVR & leave the remote in SAT mode (since I used SAT instead of DEV_SAT in the macro), correct?

Thanks in advance.

No device button (TV, DVD, SAT) assigns any Keysets in the extended remote, unless you have a macro that does such assignment assigned to that device button.

The DEV_XXX command affects all commands that follow it in a macro or DSM, LKP, or DKP sequence until either the sequence ends, a NEW DEV_XXX command is executed, or the DEV_CANCEL command is executed.

The "SET_XXX_KEYS" commands are meaningless unless they are preceded SOMEWHERE in the sequence by a DEV_XXX command.

They assign the keyset to the LAST (or current) DEV_XXX command. Simply having the SET_XXX_KEYS commands BEFORE any DEV_XXX command will do nothing.

So what you need in general when structuring macros and other sequences (DSMs, LKPs, DKPs) is:

For FUNCTIONS WITHIN THE SEQUENCE YOU ARE TRYING TO EXECUTE: Precede functions (as applicable) with the applicable DEV_XXX command;

For assigning keysets (to be in force after the remote has stopped sending the current sequence), use the SET_XXX_KEYS commands preceded by the desired DEV_XXX Command.

If you post your UPDATED IR file, I'll be happy to provide specifics.

Here's the latest:
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3480

I didn't have devices added to the first one, which explains why it did NOTHING The devices are in now.

I first replaced the TV: 1800 device and aparently this was a bad move cause it seemed to have effectively killed the whole Extension. I put that back and added my TV as a new device and that problem went away.

So basically, the version I have now seems to work just looking at the remote -- pressing TV initiates a macro as evidenced by the rapid changing of the LCD -- but has no effect on the actual devices I press TV and nothing actually turns on. Other commands (non-DEVICE-button ones) now work, because of the device thing mentioned above.

I also have a macro on the POWER button which should turn off all devices. It does the same as the DEVICE-button macros.. makes the LCD cycle, but has no actual effect.

One new thing I tried w/ this last file is a LKP on the power button which should turn off only the active device. This doesn't seem to work - when I hold the power button, the LCD cycles the same as if I just press it quickly.

My main thing right now is getting the DEVICE buttons & POWER button to do their thing, the LKP is a secondary concern for now.

Scott12 wrote: I first replaced the TV: 1800 device and aparently this was a bad move cause it seemed to have effectively killed the whole Extension. I put that back and added my TV as a new device and that problem went away.

YEAH! The extender README pretty clearly states that TV:1800 IS THE EXTENDER! You can delete OTHER Special protocol devices and protocols if you plan to not use them, but THAT one has to remain!

Scott12 wrote:So basically, the version I have now seems to work just looking at the remote -- pressing TV initiates a macro as evidenced by the rapid changing of the LCD -- but has no effect on the actual devices I press TV and nothing actually turns on. Other commands (non-DEVICE-button ones) now work, because of the device thing mentioned above.

I also have a macro on the POWER button which should turn off all devices. It does the same as the DEVICE-button macros.. makes the LCD cycle, but has no actual effect.

Any macro or LKP sequence you have assigned that uses a ToadTog will not work correctly because you have set up your ToadTogs incorrectly and you have multiple functions assigned to "POWER".

First the use of the Toggle flags:

Using Toggle #0 for ALL of the OFF's simply isn't the way the ToadTog concept is designed.

The "TOGGLE #" selection in the pop-up window when you set up a ToadTog corresponds to a particular DEVICE's STATE, not to a particular function accross devices. So when you have toggle number 0 assigned to ALL of your "FORCE OFF" functions, once you execute ONE "OFF" (for, say, the TV), NO OTHER "OFF" will execute until you reset that flag, which you never do.

Look at it this way. You want to assign the Toggle #'s to track the state of EACH INDIVIDUAL COMPONENT, so Toggle #0 would track whether your TV is on or off - it therefore cannot be used to track whether your DVD, AMP and VCR are on or off. Toggle #1 could then be used to track the DVD state, Toggle #2 the VCR state, and Toggle #3 the RCVR state.

The FORCE ON and FORCE OFF for each device should use the SAME Toggle #, i.e. your TV Shift-Stop and Shift-Play should BOTH use Toggle 0, your DVD Shift-Stop and Shift-Play should BOTH use toggle 1, the VCR should use Toggle 2 and the RCVR should use Toggle 3.

Secondly, use of "POWER" within the ToadTogs:

Since you have a macro and LKPs on "POWER", when you invoke the "POWER" key in your ToadTogs, the remote tries to execute the LKP or Macro assigned to POWER FIRST. Only if it finds no such assignment via Macro or Keymove will it execute the underlying function assigned in the device upgrade. So your ToadTogs are unlikely to work regardless, even if you fix the Toggle bit business I discuss above. There IS a workaround, however.

The sequence in which the remote decides what to execute upon a button being pressed (or invoked in a ToadTog or macro/LKP sequence) is:
(1) Is there a keymove (which could be a Special Protocol function assignment) on this key in this device mode? If yes, that's what it does, if not;
(2) Is there a MACRO on this key? If yes, that's what it does, if not;
(3) Is there a function assigned to this key? If yes, that's what it executes. (This option cannot apply to keys that can ONLY be assigned through keymoves, like shifted keys or phantoms)

Now for SHIFTED keys, the remote goes through the same sequence, and if the answer to questions 1 and 2 is "NO" then it conducts one more check, and will execute the UNDERLYING FUNCTION for the key in the current device mode. i.e for your situation, shift-POWER (since it has NO functions assigned elsewhere in IR) will ultimately execute the function assigned to the POWER button. This behaviour is called "shift-cloaking", such that if the "POWER"button has a macro or keymove on it, you can still access the now-"hidden" or "cloaked" underlying function by pressing (or invoking) "shift-POWER".

That long-winded explanation SHOULD lead you to conclude that to access the underlying primary POWER function you want in each of your ToadTogs, you should use "shift-POWER" instead of "POWER" in the corresponding positions of your Toad Tog assignments.

Try re-vamping your ToadTogs as suggested above and then see how the macro sequences work.

As for your LKP, you have a MACRO assigned to the Power button and a Keymove (the LKP function is really just a glorified keymove) on the Power button.

Further, you have nothing assigned to the "Long" keypress side of the LKP.

Knowing nothing about IR, one can certainly see where the remote would, as a minimum, be confused with two things assigned to the same button. As it is, it depends on which of those you created and saved first as to which the remote will try to execute. Here's what you need to do.

1. Change your POWER macro (the "ALL OFF" macro) from the "POWER" button to the "x-shift POWER" button;
2. Alter EACH of your LKPs to call on "x-shift POWER" in the "LONG KEYS" column;

Then a SHORT keypress of POWER should turn off your active component, whilst a long keypress will turn off everything (if you fixed the ToadTogs as I outlined above.

Further, I would remove the DEV_Cancels on the short sides of the LKPs since they just consume memory and the DEV_XXX command is meaningless once the sequence is executed and over. They don't hurt any, but just cost you memory.

STILL further, I suspect you can get away with not using the DEV_XXX commands at all on the short side of the LKPs since the device you want to turn off is already the active device (presumably).

Incorporating the comments above, I came up with THIS IR file. I encourage you to create your own, since that will provide greater learning and understanding, but try this one on for size.

In addition to "fixing" (hopefully) the ToadTogs and LKPs, I also created a series of Device selection Macro/LKPs that SHOULD work as follows:

Short press of any device button (well, TV, DVD, RCVR and VCR - the others have nothing on them) - sends no signals, but assigns the keysets to be active for THAT particular device.

Long press of any device button - sends the entire sequence that you previously designed to power up and line up a device for viewing/listening.

Argh! I knew about the toggle # thing! (I had read posts about other people making the same mistake) I just forgot..

I'm pretty sure I followed the rest of that, thanks a bunch for all the time you're giving me! It's the start of the workday here so I have to wait till I get home to try all this out.

Thanks for the IR file. I was trying to grab other random IR files from the diagnostic area to see what I was doing different, but obviously half the files there are not working either and most probably aren't trying to accomplish the same thing I am. I'm sure it'll help a lot to have that to work from.


By the way, on an unrelated topic, I had a friend w/ an Alaskan Malamute (sled dog). He trained the dog to get beers out of the fridge for him.. might be a way for you to get rid of the end of your signature..

Scott12 wrote: By the way, on an unrelated topic, I had a friend w/ an Alaskan Malamute (sled dog). He trained the dog to get beers out of the fridge for him.. might be a way for you to get rid of the end of your signature..

Well a dog's GOT to be easier to train to do this than my teenagers!

Capn Trips wrote:Incorporating the comments above, I came up with THIS IR file. I encourage you to create your own, since that will provide greater learning and understanding, but try this one on for size.

That link is taking me to an old Device Upgrade file... I scanned thru the Dianosis Area files and didn't see one that looked like yours.

In the meantime, I'll see how far I can get..