JP1 Remotes

My IR file has been posted in the diagnosis area of the Yahoo JP1 users group. The title of the file is 062704.txt

Here are the problems that I have using my URC-8811.

1. The L1 key for VCR mode has been programmed to an auto-tuning key from my RCA MM36100 digital monitor. This key automatically tunes my monitor to the signal being sent to the Video 1 input (which happens to be the S-Video out from my VCR). IR shows the following error message.

<<This signal contains a section that IR doesn't know how to analyze. Please save this data and post it in the diagnostics section of the jp1 group, and post a message indicating that you have done so.>>

I should note that despite this error message the L1 key, as programmed, does work and serves its intended purpose. What is the meaning of this error message.


2. My second VCR is a JVC-S2901U. I am using code 0067 at the AUX button. The original JVC remote has start +/- and stop +/- and date +/- keys which are used to set the timer for unattended recording. The 8811 has no comparable buttons so I have mapped those buttons to the numerical buttons on the 8811. (I am prepared to forego use of the numerical buttons for the VCR, since I don't see any other option). For each of the JVC VCR codes I have taught to the 8811, I have received the following error message:

<<Part of this signal is sent after the button is released. While this could be correct, it may indicate that the signal was not learned optimally. It is recommended that you attempt to re-learn the signal at least once, being sure not to release the button until the remote's LED flashes twice.>>

I believe I have programmed the 8811 properly. The learned keys are working as intended. What is the meaning of this error message?


3. I am now at the learning limit of the 8811. It seems that the next steps are for me to copy the OBC, Hex and EFC codes for each learned button into Remote Master (RM), create an upgrade code for each device, and substitute that upgrade code for all of the learned buttons, thereby restoring my learned memory, repeating this process as many times as is necessary. Is that correct?


4. I do not have an Excel spreadsheeet, so I am using RM. Where can I find a comprehensible set of instructions for transferring information from the "learned signals" section of IR into the proper section of RM?


5. For example, in the "learned signals" section of IR the codes for VCR: Enter appear as follows:

OBC-87, Hex Cmd - A0 or A1 or A2, EFC - 015 or 007 or 031

Which codes do I enter into RM when I am given all these "or" choices?


6. Does the 8811 support the [SHIFT] function. Is the "SET" button the correct way to invoke a shift? Where can I find documentation for this process?


I hope I don't get flamed for this, but I find this entire process to be incredibly complex. There is no single instruction manual, instead you need to read multiple posted documents. These documents are written at a level that is intended for serious techies. I hope this forum will provide calm an understandable assistance.

Thank you,
Stu

Please post a link to your file to make it easier for us to help you (plus, please read the sticky that explains how to post links)

Here is the link

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files ... 062704.txt

Stu

stususs wrote:
1. The L1 key for VCR ... shows the following error message.

<<This signal contains a section that IR doesn't know how to analyze. Please save this data and post it in the diagnostics section of the jp1 group, and post a message indicating that you have done so.>>... What is the meaning of this error message.

The command is corrupted from what looks like weak batteries and is confusing the decoder. It is RCA:14:58 -- Key move it using VCR/0060 EFC 227.

2. My second VCR is a JVC-S2901U. I am using code 0067 at the AUX button. The original JVC remote has start +/- and stop +/- and date +/- keys which are used to set the timer for unattended recording. The 8811 has no comparable buttons so I have mapped those buttons to the numerical buttons on the 8811. (I am prepared to forego use of the numerical buttons for the VCR, since I don't see any other option). For each of the JVC VCR codes I have taught to the 8811, I have received the following error message:

<<Part of this signal is sent after the button is released. While this could be correct, it may indicate that the signal was not learned optimally. It is recommended that you attempt to re-learn the signal at least once, being sure not to release the button until the remote's LED flashes twice.>>

I believe I have programmed the 8811 properly. The learned keys are working as intended. What is the meaning of this error message?

In this case nothing, it is decoding correctly and that error message confuses more people than it helps.

3. I am now at the learning limit of the 8811. It seems that the next steps are for me to copy the OBC, Hex and EFC codes for each learned button into Remote Master (RM), create an upgrade code for each device, and substitute that upgrade code for all of the learned buttons, thereby restoring my learned memory, repeating this process as many times as is necessary. Is that correct?

Yes

4. I do not have an Excel spreadsheet, so I am using RM. Where can I find a comprehensible set of instructions for transferring information from the "learned signals" section of IR into the proper section of RM?

1. Open RM, select your remote 801X, put in the setup code (we arbitrarily add 1000 to the built in code) 1067

2. Select JVC as the Protocol

3. Enter 67 as the device

4. Open the Function tab

5. Enter OBC or EFC or Hex (RM will compute the others)

5. For example, in the "learned signals" section of IR the codes for VCR: Enter appear as follows:

OBC-87, Hex Cmd - A0 or A1 or A2, EFC - 015 or 007 or 031

Which codes do I enter into RM when I am given all these "or" choices?

Any one of them in the appropriate column

6

. Does the 8811 support the [SHIFT] function. Is the "SET" button the correct way to invoke a shift? Where can I find documentation for this process?

Look at the manual at www.hifi-remote.com and use the RS 15-1994 manual. It is generally correct for all OFA non LCD remotes.

I hope I don't get flamed for this, but I find this entire process to be incredibly complex. There is no single instruction manual, instead you need to read multiple posted documents. These documents are written at a level that is intended for serious techies. I hope this forum will provide calm an understandable assistance.

We are appreciative of someone like you who has gone to the effort to try and understand before posting. The user group really does make up for the lack of documentation.

The bottom line is all programmable remotes take time and getting over the learning curve. I can assure you if you keep at it , the whole process will make sense and you will be very impressed with the result.

stususs wrote:I hope I don't get flamed for this, but I find this entire process to be incredibly complex. There is no single instruction manual, instead you need to read multiple posted documents. These documents are written at a level that is intended for serious techies. I hope this forum will provide calm an understandable assistance.

I hope you read my JP1 - How Easy Is It? document. Assuming you did, I'd welcome any advice on how I can make it less "techie".

I realize it's written for KM, but the general process is also applicable for RM. Hopefully someone who has the time can take some RM screen shots and make an RM version of it.

Stu,

I posted a generic RCA TV device upgrade file that should have all the commands that you need if you don't want to use keymoves.

RCA TV's and receivers use OBC 58 the typical discrete On for Satellite STB's, VCR1,VCR2, and DVD's for discrete inputs. So the EFC is the same but each uses a different device number. The various devices are 7, 12, 13, and 5 respectively.

My upgrade uses the RCA combo protocol so you can select a different device for each command. Take a look and you can experiment with it and find out what works and then assign the various functions to keys or shifted keys. The input commands are at the very bottom.

After one week of experimentation, I am satisfied with the results. I still have the following questions.

1. For some components I have created an upgrade code, adding 1000 to the original code number. For other components I have used a standard, built-in, device code and used learning to fill in the missing commands. I understand learning memory fills up quicker. Other than that, are there any other practical differences between using learning with standard codes or creating upgrade codes? Does it matter which method I use?

2. I have tried to understand Mr. Fichman's document regarding extenders. From the part that I am able to understand, it does not appear that any possible benefit is worth the complexity. Am I missing something here?

3. What is the recommended method for cleaning the surface of an 8811 to protect against sweat and finger oils?

Rob, to answer your question, I have a copy of JP-1, How easy is it? Because it is designed for KM instead of for RM, I have not been able to make use of the document and am unable to evaluate its simplicity or complexity. Anyway, I thank you, Rob, and your colleagues for your assistance with this project.

Stu

stususs wrote:Rob, to answer your question, I have a copy of JP-1, How easy is it? Because it is designed for KM instead of for RM, I have not been able to make use of the document and am unable to evaluate its simplicity or complexity.

The basic concepts are pretty much the same between RM and KM, the main difference being that RM has a more advanced user interface. Therefore, the general principles described in my document apply also to RM.

stususs wrote:After one week of experimentation, I am satisfied with the results. I still have the following questions.

1. For some components I have created an upgrade code, adding 1000 to the original code number. For other components I have used a standard, built-in, device code and used learning to fill in the missing commands. I understand learning memory fills up quicker. Other than that, are there any other practical differences between using learning with standard codes or creating upgrade codes? Does it matter which method I use?

Yes, particularly if you want to use an extender. There could also be other reasons. Your VCR on the VCR device apparently uses the RC5 protocol that uses a toggle bit. A learned command such as the numeral one would not work if you had to go to channel 111. The gear would think it had been sent only a 1, since to interpret a second 1, one bit would have to alternate. If you key move a key with the RC5 protocol, then the remote knows to toggle the proper bit. When learned, it does not.

A better plan is to learn the missing command to find out it's EFC and keymove it to the key you want using IR rather than just learn it.

2. I have tried to understand Mr. Fichman's document regarding extenders. From the part that I am able to understand, it does not appear that any possible benefit is worth the complexity. Am I missing something here?

It just seems complex until you do it. The major benefits are:
a. recovery of memory and removes some artificial barriers
b. programming keys like device keys with macros
c. incredible increase in execution speed of macros

Keep in mind, if you save your unextended configuration, you can always upload that back to your remote as you experiment with an extender.

But if you are only controlling a few pieces of equipment, then you may not need or want to try it.

Jon,

Thank you for all of your time and assistance.

Here is my latest problem. My DVD player is the DVD drive on my computer from which I feed the video signal to my TV monitor via a DB-15 SVGA cable. In order to have my 8811 learn to operate the DVD drive, I have taken a wireless keyboard and used that as the "original remote" for the DVD player and let the 8811 learn the keystrokes from the keyboard-remote. So far I have taught the 8811 two keys, "pause" and "menu." However the 8811 does not seem to be able to control the DVD player.

The current version of my IR file is attached for your analysis. What have I done wrong with these two keys?

Here is my current file:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files ... 070704.txt

Thanks,
Stu

Stu,

Most keyboards have a make (key depressed) and break (key released) commands for each key. Usually one bit changes. Some also have a "held" command.

Keyboards need to be learned differently. Start the learning process on your 8811 with the fast blinking led, then do a sharp tap on the keyboard rather than hold the hey down. That way you capture the make and break command.

For now just learn the numerals 0 through 9 on the keyboard so I can decode it. I suspect that we may have to create a protocol upgrade for it.

Jon,

I will follow your instructions and send you the numerical keys from the keyboard.


Your other advice to me was to create new devices rather than rely on the learning functions of the 8811. I am using RM, not KM. Am I correct that if I am unable to find an RMDU file in Yahoo files for my specific component, then I must learn each individual keystroke from the original remote, download those keystrokes to IR, manually code them into RM, manually map them to keys on the 8811, copy and paste from RM to IR, then upload the new IR file to the 8811?

Is there no more efficient way of doing this? For preset device codes, is there any way to obtain all at once the EFC, OBC and Hex codes for the normal buttons and use the step by step method only for unique buttons?


My other problem is with learning. I press set, then receive two blinks. I enter 975, then receive two blinks. I select a device, then a particular key on the 8811 and receive the fast blinking LED. I then place the remotes face to face and press the appropriate button from the original remote. At that point I am supposed to receive two blinks, indicating that learning has been completed. The last step more often than not fails to produce the two blinks. It requires several attempts for each key and is consuming a lot of time. What am I doing wrong?

Thank you again for your assistance.

Stu

stususs wrote:I am using RM, not KM. Am I correct that if I am unable to find an RMDU file in Yahoo files for my specific component, then I must learn each individual keystroke from the original remote, download those keystrokes to IR, manually code them into RM, manually map them to keys on the 8811, copy and paste from RM to IR, then upload the new IR file to the 8811?

I'm surprised none of the RM guys jumped in here... RM can open many of the existing KM files, so you can check the Device Codes folder as well.

Is there no more efficient way of doing this? For preset device codes, is there any way to obtain all at once the EFC, OBC and Hex codes for the normal buttons and use the step by step method only for unique buttons?

You can try the devices4.xls spreadsheet. It's a bit outdated, but contains details for most of the setup codes in the 15-1994 remote. If it's not in devices4, tell us what setup code you're looking for and perhaps someone can tell you (Rob and Jon have a great knack for that ).

My other problem is with learning. I press set, then receive two blinks. I enter 975, then receive two blinks. I select a device, then a particular key on the 8811 and receive the fast blinking LED. I then place the remotes face to face and press the appropriate button from the original remote. At that point I am supposed to receive two blinks, indicating that learning has been completed. The last step more often than not fails to produce the two blinks. It requires several attempts for each key and is consuming a lot of time. What am I doing wrong?

While the LED is blinking rapidly, press the OEM button and hold it until the LED goes out. If you want to learn to another button, press the desired button on the 8811, and then the OEM button while the LED is blinking. When you're done learning, press and hold Set until the LED blinks twice to save the learned signals and exit learning mode.

Mark Pierson wrote:While the LED is blinking rapidly, press the OEM button and hold it until the LED goes out. If you want to learn to another button, press the desired button on the 8811, and then the OEM button while the LED is blinking. When you're done learning, press and hold Set until the LED blinks twice to save the learned signals and exit learning mode.

In the case of the keyboard I am suggesting a sharp tap of the key once the 8811 is blinking rapidly. The 8811 should then double blink .

You have a lot of learned comamnds, so you may want to save your configuraton in IR, and then do a 981 reset to learn. It quits learning when the allocated memory is used up. save the file with the learned commands and post it.

Once done then you can upload your previously saved file and you are back where you were.

Mark Pierson wrote:While the LED is blinking rapidly, press the OEM button and hold it until the LED goes out.

Actually, that's misleading. The correct process is this...

1) Press and hold SET, wait for 2 flashes
2) Type 975, 2 flashes
3) Press a device button (optional)
4) Press the button to be programmed.

At this point the LED will flash rapidly, while the LED is flashing you should start pressing the button on the OEM remote. As soon as you press the OEM button the LED will stop flashing, but you should KEEP PRESSING the OEM button until the LED flashes twice, which indicates that the learn was successful. If the LED does one long flash, it means the learn was not successful.

As Jon as stated, keyboards are an exception to this rule. For these you should just peck the keyboard button.