JP1 Remotes

Split out from the Pioneer Mix thread

I am completely new to JP1. The above discussion is generally beyond my ability at this time, but as I got here looking for a similar problem with what appears to be very similar gear, my own solution to getting a Pioneer TV working may be helpful to other newcomers. Obviously, the more general solution dicussed above would be preferable, but is nothing I care to attempt at this stage.

I'm trying to keep it as simple as I can, which isn't easy at my low level of knowledge. I'm a retired computer professional, and if I know anything, it's what my level of knowledge is relative to competence, and for JP1, it's nowhere close.

I am pretty happy with my Comcast remote on a number of grounds that other OFA remotes do not address, but I did want to add DVD commands and the Pioneer input selection codes (I use the receiver as an amp, and use the TV to switch inputs) and, very important for our viewing habits, setting the screen size. Local PBS stations include a number of subchannels of interest that are at SD resolution but include lots of 16:9 content letterboxed into 4:3 SD, so we frequently use the Pioneer TV's Screen Size function to zoom in to enlarge such things to fill the screen.

I got the OFA remote (see sig) with the intention of working things out there and then duplicating or transfering the results to the Comcast, so all this applies to the OFA, as I haven't yet done the transfer to the Comcast.

I run XP Sp3. I am using Tommy Tyler's USB cable and RMIR v. 2.02 beta , RDF and maps v 1.32. Everything works as advertised as a first approximation.

I installed a relevant DVD upgrade, with many keymoves, with no problem with the upgrade or the software. Works fine.

I found 2 apparently relevant Pioneer TV upgrades here in the TV part of the forum's file section - Pioneer 5080 and 6020

The Pioneer 5080 is a lower resolution version of my 5010 (despite the model numbers!), same generation, using the same remote, judging by the manuals. I went with that upgrade in RM IR, but that particular upgrade seems to have some sort of structural problem in that the function "spreadsheet" display did not scroll properly beginning around line 35 - a problem I did not have with other devices, and thus assume the issue is in the upgrade and not the software. In any event, the Screen Size button did not work from this upgrade.

The Pioneer 6020 is of the generation after my 5010, and was my next upgrade choice. However, the upgrade is in two parts. I did not (and still do not) know how to deal with a two part upgrade. Loading both parts did nor work, and the Pioneer discrete input buttons were in the first part, and the screen size button was in the second part - but I needed only one button out of the second part.

I used the first part of the 6020 upgrade, and as I was interested in only the Screen Size button out of the few buttpns in the second part of the upgrade, I simply used the OFA's learning function to get that from the original Pioneer remote. This has worked out perfectly on the OFA, but I've still got to deal with getting this on to the Comcast remote.

Nothing profound here, but if you are a novice JP1er with a Pioneer Kuro TV, this may be a practical way to avoid dealing with more advanced measures.

My congratulations to all the many JP1 contributors - this is a great piece of work in spite of the steep learning curve.

The Pioneer 6020 is of the generation after my 5010, and was my next upgrade choice. However, the upgrade is in two parts. I did not (and still do not) know how to deal with a two part upgrade. Loading both parts did nor work, and the Pioneer discrete input buttons were in the first part, and the screen size button was in the second part - but I needed only one button out of the second part.

I used the first part of the 6020 upgrade, and as I was interested in only the Screen Size button out of the few buttpns in the second part of the upgrade, I simply used the OFA's learning function to get that from the original Pioneer remote. This has worked out perfectly on the OFA, but I've still got to deal with getting this on to the Comcast remote.

When an upgrade uses two parts like this, the second part is called a helper upgrade.

If there are not enough devices in a combo protocol, or if a different type of signals are used for certain functions, a helper code is used to supplement the main upgrade with keymoves. A helper upgrade may have different fixed data, and/or a different protocol. Remember that the setup code provides the fixed data and the protocol executor for the keymove.

When you have two upgrades for the same device, you assign the upgrade holding the majority of the functions to the device button, and then use keymoves from the other (helper) upgrade to complete the functions. Depending on the vintage of the remote, the function may or may not need to be assigned to a button. During the transition, when UEI changed from 3digit EFC's to 5 digit EFCs some remotes were only able to do key style keymoves. This bug was fixed in later models and only effected a handful of late JP1 and early JP1.2 remotes.

This upgrade was developed by a slingbox user, as a favor. Slingboxes can't use a helper upgrade so it was never tested.

I think everyone would have trouble with this two part upgrade. One part uses the Pioneer DVD protocol, the other part uses the Pioneer MIX. Both protocols come out or RM as 007E. Up until the most recent RMIR BETA you could not use this combination in RMIR. In IR, you need to change the PID for the second upgrade. This not difficult, but its very "advanced".

I used the first part of the 6020 upgrade, and as I was interested in only the Screen Size button out of the few buttpns in the second part of the upgrade, I simply used the OFA's learning function to get that from the original Pioneer remote. This has worked out perfectly on the OFA, but I've still got to deal with getting this on to the Comcast remote.

Of course when you move to the Comcast, those learns need to be converted to an upgrade, since your Comcast doesn't support learned signals.

vickyg2003 wrote:I think everyone would have trouble with this two part upgrade. One part uses the Pioneer DVD protocol, the other part uses the Pioneer MIX. Both protocols come out or RM as 007E. Up until the most recent RMIR BETA you could not use this combination in RMIR. In IR, you need to change the PID for the second upgrade. This not difficult, but its very "advanced".

I believe that I picked up on changing the second upgrade's PID while researching the problem, but could not determine what to do about it - i.e., use some random PID that I pulled out of a hat, or what. I never found an indication of how PIDs were assigned, or what the syntax was for a PID. Can you point me in the right direction?

vickyg2003 wrote:Of course when you move to the Comcast, those learns need to be converted to an upgrade, since your Comcast doesn't support learned signals.

I was unaware of that. I know that unlike most JP1 remotes, the Comcast remote has no facility for learning codes from an IR stream, but I did not realize that that also precluded transferring a learned code from another remote (not that I had figured out how to do that as yet). Again, advice will be much appreciated.

I split this conversation out from the Pioneer Mix thread, so that we can follow up on newbie issues, without clouding the technical aspects of fixing the pioneer mix.

oldabelincoln wrote:

vickyg2003 wrote:I think everyone would have trouble with this two part upgrade. One part uses the Pioneer DVD protocol, the other part uses the Pioneer MIX. Both protocols come out or RM as 007E. Up until the most recent RMIR BETA you could not use this combination in RMIR. In IR, you need to change the PID for the second upgrade. This not difficult, but its very "advanced".

I believe that I picked up on changing the second upgrade's PID while researching the problem, but could not determine what to do about it - i.e., use some random PID that I pulled out of a hat, or what. I never found an indication of how PIDs were assigned, or what the syntax was for a PID. Can you point me in the right direction?

PID ID's are typically in the range of 0000 to 01FF. The newer remotes don't have that limit, but to remain compatible its best to choose a PID in that range. RMIR has an additional limitation that it wants the PID to be different than the ones built in to the remote, so you may have to do some re-entering until you find an acceptable PID for your remote.

vickyg2003 wrote:Of course when you move to the Comcast, those learns need to be converted to an upgrade, since your Comcast doesn't support learned signals.

I was unaware of that. I know that unlike most JP1 remotes, the Comcast remote has no facility for learning codes from an IR stream, but I did not realize that that also precluded transferring a learned code from another remote (not that I had figured out how to do that as yet). Again, advice will be much appreciated.

There are remotes that don't have the learning hardware, but do have the learning logic. The popular Atlas is one of those. Most Atlases were built without the learning hardware, but the logic is there, so we can simply copy the learn from another remote to the Atlas. Since no version of the Comcast 1067A or 1067B had hardware, the remote was designed without the ability to process (send) learned signals.

In general if there is no "Learn Signals" tab in the software, the remote does not support sending learned signals. If the "Learn Signals" tab is present, the remote nows how to send them, but may or may not have the ability to learn them via the *975 head to head learn.