Panasonic SA-HE100 and Panasonic Combo2 (with 15-1995)

[ElizabethD]

Rob - re: sound control codes

So, give them a whirl and see if they do anything with your HE200 units.

Thanks. I guess I'll issue some magic incantation smack on the remote to see if they do anything on HE100. If they do, that will begin another issue - how to use them best. HE100 has those 2 and many more functions embedded in several "scrolling" buttons.
Is there an official language in the remote science? Does the word "scrolling" button mean anything to you guys?

[tbsmith]

I'm sorry for taking up all this bandwidth, but I'm not having much luck relying on the documentation. I'm an engineer and have done other projects that require interfacing with a computer (a digital readout for my milling machine, for example), but this stuff is hard!

Anyway, I will print out all the posts and study the good advice you guys have given me. I think if I work on it a while, it should start to make sense, since it looks like you gave me enough to go by.

Regarding, keymoves, yes I can do them Elizabeth (I should say my remote is capable of keymoves) and it looks like you gave me easy to follow directions. Thank you!!! I'm also trying to decifer the some of the SA-xxx files, but am struggling with some of the terms like bound device. I just need to study it some more.

I did have one setback and that is my KM txt files I saved are not readable. I must have messed up somewhere, but at least I have the program in the remote and will save it again.

Tom

[The Robman]

re: sound control codes: give them a whirl and see if they do anything with your HE200 units.

Thanks. I guess I'll issue some magic incantation smack on the remote to see if they do anything on HE100.

I'm not sure what sort of "incantation smack" you had in mind, but all you need to do is assign the two functions to a couple of buttons, then try pressing the buttons while standing in front of the receiver to see if they do anything. Given that you know what they're supposed to do, try putting the receiver into a mode where using them makes sense. For example, try the STEREO button while the receiver's in Tuner mode.

If they do, that will begin another issue - how to use them best. HE100 has those 2 and many more functions embedded in several "scrolling" buttons.

Is there an official language in the remote science? Does the word "scrolling" button mean anything to you guys?

The official terms you are looking for are "discrete codes" and "toggle codes". Discrete codes do a specific task only, such as turn a device on or select an input, whereas a toggle code does multiple tasks, such as POWER, which will turn a device on AND off, or INPUT which will toggle between input, input2, etc, etc

[ElizabethD]

Rob, Many thanks for following this up.

re: sound control codes: give them a whirl and see if they do anything with your HE200 units.

SA-HE100 (not 200) probably has different versions.
I pushed these and other EFCs directly into the remote (not via KM or IR):
s.srnd=159, s.st=149,ctr up=046, center down=050, side up=084, side down=088, enhanced surround=163, dolby prologic II=159, neo:6=163. These codes came from the various SA-HExxx files.
Might as well talk to the wall: The only way, on my receiver, to control the sound options is by use of any one or combination of cycling (toggle?) buttons: SFC, SoundMode, Effect, Levels etc. per instructions for the OEM remote.
I also retried Panasonic discrete on=022 and off=026 since I really need these two. They worked on my Panasonic TV but no luck with the receiver.

[tbsmith]

I think I see why Elizabeth's files don't work on my remote, but the SA-HE200 files do. (we both have the same model receiver SA-HE100) However, I don't know what is creating this circumstance...

In looking at the codes for the power button for example, on the working version (SA-HE200), the hex code is FF 43, but in Elizabeth's upgrade, the same button has the hex code of 43 FF. Could that be the reason and how would they get turned around like that?

Elizabeth, sorry to hear you are still having problems and wish I knew enough about this to help you. Maybe in a few months!!

Two more dumb questions:
In the jp1 documentation, in several places, it says to be sure to "assign the new setup code to an actual device button". Do I just do that in IR under the general tab, and type in the code?

Does it matter which device type I select on that same screen?

Thanks again,
Tom

[johnsfine]

In looking at the codes for the power button for example, on the working version (SA-HE200), the hex code is FF 43, but in Elizabeth's upgrade, the same button has the hex code of 43 FF. Could that be the reason and how would they get turned around like that?

There are (at least) two different versions of this combo protocol floating around and they have those two bytes in opposite sequence from each other.

I didn't reread this thread carefully enough to understand the process of getting those upgrades into your remotes. KM or RM should be able to know which version of that combo is in your model remote and order the bytes appropriately. If neither version is in the remote, KM or RM should be able to provide a protocol upgrade for one of those versions AND sequence the bytes in the device upgrade to be consistent with the provided version of the protocol upgrade.

I can't guess whether a flaw in the installation process or an error in KM/RM is responsible for apparently having those bytes backwards.

In the jp1 documentation, in several places, it says to be sure to "assign the new setup code to an actual device button". Do I just do that in IR under the general tab, and type in the code?

Does it matter which device type I select on that same screen?

YES! The setup code of a device upgrade (like any other setup code) is the combination of a device type and a 4 digit number. To specify any setup code you must specify both the device type and the 4 digit number.

The device type you select on the general tab must match the device type used in KM or RM in creating the device upgrade. That doesn't need to match the actual type of the device you're controlling, nor does it NEED to match the default type for the device button you assign it to. But it does need to match the type of the device upgrade.

Device types are grouped, so the type of an upgrade in a specific model remote might not be the type originally specified in KM or RM. If the type you expect isn't one of the choices IR gives you, check back on IR's Devices tab and it should show you the name of the upgrade's device type for the current model remote.

[The Robman]

Rob, Many thanks for following this up.

re: sound control codes: give them a whirl and see if they do anything with your HE200 units.

SA-HE100 (not 200) probably has different versions.
I pushed these and other EFCs directly into the remote (not via KM or IR):
s.srnd=159, s.st=149,ctr up=046, center down=050, side up=084, side down=088, enhanced surround=163, dolby prologic II=159, neo:6=163. These codes came from the various SA-HExxx files.
Might as well talk to the wall: The only way, on my receiver, to control the sound options is by use of any one or combination of cycling (toggle?) buttons: SFC, SoundMode, Effect, Levels etc. per instructions for the OEM remote.
I also retried Panasonic discrete on=022 and off=026 since I really need these two. They worked on my Panasonic TV but no luck with the receiver.

Remember, we are talking about a 2-byte combo protocol here, so it doesn't accept advanced codes entered on the remote. If you think about it, how would the remote know which sub-device to use? So, the only way to test these codes is to actually assign them to buttons and try them out. Remember, you don't need to keep them assigned, you just need to verify whether they work or not so we have it documented. In fact, while you're at it, why don't you create a temporary upgrade which contains all the functions that are not currently listed as being for your model in my cross-reference spreadsheet and test them all.

[ElizabethD]

Tom, I gather you're getting there.

tbsmith wrote:

In looking at the codes for the power button for example, on the working version (SA-HE200), the hex code is FF 43, but in Elizabeth's upgrade, the same button has the hex code of 43 FF. Could that be the reason and how would they get turned around like that?

Power is the key! Clearly, if you can power it on you can't control it
and that, too, was my original problem and HE75 code solved that for
me.

No, no more problems with the receiver. Tv-input switching is working very nicely via one button on the remote. I also stuck it on shifted device keys, but the's a whole other story, and I will post a question about that in
another thread.

The issue of sound control is not really a problem for me, since I
like the way my system now works because the remote's buttons closely
match the OEM remote and therefore the instructions. Also see below.

John,

My upgrade method was: read all the stickies and then use yahoo files,
use learning, fiddle in IR and KM etc. I'm just beginning to get a
drift of concepts such as device, subdevice, combiner ... to even
begin to comment on the different power codes. I doubt very much the
problem is in KM or IR.

Rob,

Remember, we are talking about a 2-byte combo protocol here, so
it doesn't accept advanced codes entered on the remote.

To "remember" you gotta learn it in the first place...
I was able to use set+advCode without a laptop at home and now see the
error of my ways. I think John Fine once wrote me this trick, but it
was for a one-device JVC-DVD and it worked so well, I never thought
the process matters. Maybe the discrete power codes will work!
Clearly, rework is needed.

why don't you create a temporary upgrade which contains all the
functions that are not currently listed as being for your model in my
cross-reference spreadsheet and test them all.

Will update soon as I can. My pleasure - opportunity for small return for the fantastic support here.
Considering what Tom wrote, would it be useful to include device#,
sub#, efc and hex codes. Why or why not?

Apologies for the messy look of replies. No time.

[tbsmith]

There are (at least) two different versions of this combo protocol floating around and they have those two bytes in opposite sequence from each other.

I didn't reread this thread carefully enough to understand the process of getting those upgrades into your remotes. KM or RM should be able to know which version of that combo is in your model remote and order the bytes appropriately. If neither version is in the remote, KM or RM should be able to provide a protocol upgrade for one of those versions AND sequence the bytes in the device upgrade to be consistent with the provided version of the protocol upgrade.

John, my process was to download the upgrade files and use KM then IR to upload them to the remote. Are you saying that what was previously in my remote will affect how it handles an uploaded upgrade? If so, maybe I should try a reset? Or are you saying that KM should sequence the file when I select my remote from the drop down box? In that case, why would it work for one file, and not the other?

I'm thinking I should give up and just stick with the file that works, although I was hoping to understand the reason for the problem with the other files, and if nothing else, help me to understand this process better, and maybe even help someone else out.

.

The device type you select on the general tab must match the device type used in KM or RM in creating the device upgrade. That doesn't need to match the actual type of the device you're controlling, nor does it NEED to match the default type for the device button you assign it to. But it does need to match the type of the device upgrade.

Okay, I will confirm that I did that correctly. I didn't think it mattered whether I selected " amp" or "tuner". I think IR was indicating on the Devices tab that the device was an "amp/tuner". What is the difference? What should I use?

[The Robman]

why don't you create a temporary upgrade which contains all the functions that are not currently listed as being for your model in my cross-reference spreadsheet and test them all.

Will update soon as I can. My pleasure - opportunity for small return for the fantastic support here.
Considering what Tom wrote, would it be useful to include device#,
sub#, efc and hex codes. Why or why not?

You would create this upgrade using KM with all the same settings as your current file uses (ie, same protocol and device code). You would then enter BOTH the sub-device code and the EFC or OBC in the functions sheet for all the un-tested functions. Then you would go to the Buttons sheet and assign these functions to actual buttons. Finally, you would load it into your remote and test the buttons.

[tbsmith]

Last night I verified that I was using the correct device type in KM and IR. So then I tried using Remote Master to see if that helped, but no joy. I am still not able to get the receiver upgrade file that is supposed to be for my model to work, even though it works for Elizabeth (just different remote). However, I can get a different model upgrade to work (SA-HE200).

So I'm wondering if Panasonic made a mid-production change to the receivers (assuming the HE200 model is a later version of HE100).

Anyway, I could sure use some other suggestions on where to go from here. How can I determine if it is something I am doing wrong, or a problem with the upgrade file for my particular remote or something else?

On another topic...There are 3 different RDF files for my particular remote (15-1995 7 in 1; 15-1995 with extra memory; and 15-1995 with extender). Does this mean it is possible to add memory to the remote? How do I know which of these to use?

Thanks a bunch,
Tom

[The Robman]

Tom,
Could you provide a link to the file that doesn't work and the one that does. Better yet, could you save the two files after you've made all your changes in KM and then zip them together, clearly labelling which one works and which one doesn't. Could you then add both upgrades to an IR file for your 15-1995 and include that in the zip also. The reason I ask for all this is that all of the HExxx files out there use the exact same protocol and device codes, there are just minor differences in the button codes, so the fact that you say one file works and the other doesn't means you're doing something wrong, but I can't tell what it is based on the info posted so far.

For now, you should just use the standard RDF for your remote. You would only use the extender RDF if you have installed the extender. As for the extra memory RDF, you can't install extra memory but you can make better use of the memory you have. The 15-1995 memory is divided into the following sections:

1) Standard header stuff (ie, setup codes)
2) Keymove, Macro section
3) Normal upgrade section
4) Device button specific upgrade section
5) Timed macro section

If you find that you need more of one and less of another, you can manually tweek the RDF to accomplish this, which is what someone did with the other RDF. Taking a quick look at that RDF it appears that they have extended the keymove/macro area by $100 bytes and reduced the Device specific upgrade section by $100 bytes.

[ElizabethD]

Re: composite spreadsheet of all SA-HExxx codes.

Preliminary results. Thanks to Rob, HE100 upgrade gained couple functions.

I tested in FM and DVD modes and in stereo and enhanced stereo modes where these variations matter. Do the codes, not now in my HE100 set, work?

Yes : s.srnd, s.st, dimmer, input mode (audio analog/optical toggle)

No : remaster (HE200 can remaster video sources, HE100 can't), audio power, discrete on/off

Maybe :
1. tone followed by level+ [R] or level- [L] does nothing (level+- do work on HE100 remote after level is pushed);
2. I missed check of balance followed by level+ [R] or level- [L] (no balance on the remote, only on He100 receiver);
3. center up/down and side up/down don't work standalone, may require another button pushed (on HE100 level selects speakers first then level+- change volume);
4. dvd6ch, enhSurround,DobyPrologicII,neo:6 do nothing, may need another button pushed first (on he100 all this is on couple cycling/scrolling remote and/or receiver buttons);
5. sourceDirect - no clue what it should do. In FM mode it walked through couple stations (scan?) then stopped.
6. DOCTOR (help?) either resets the receiver does something else goofy or requires another key to follow.

Don't know expected results for things in the Maybe section. I can't say they don't work because I can't prove the negative. Pushed alone, most do nothing. Held long also nothing, depends what key I assigned to since I used some shifts (case of bad process but I know what I'm after and swapped them about to confirm).

I will finish updating the spreadsheet after I come to grips with what to expect. Somebody who uses HE200 could help describe how to work it, then I can try something equivalent on HE100.
I might also re-check the duplicates (power, level, sfc, test). Scope-creep.

[tbsmith]

Could you provide a link to the file that doesn't work and the one that does. Better yet, could you save the two files after you've made all your changes in KM and then zip them together, clearly labelling which one works and which one doesn't. Could you then add both upgrades to an IR file for your 15-1995 and include that in the zip also.

Rob,

Yes I will do that. It looks like I should put them in the Yahoo Diagnosis Folder. I will do that later tonight.

Looking forward to your words of wisdom!

Thanks for explaining the differences in the RDF files too.

Tom

[tbsmith]

Rob,

I uploaded the zip file to the Diagnosis Folder Toms1995.zip

The files that work are for the Panasonic SA-HE200, and the files that don't work are the SA-HE100 (and others). I named the files GOOD and BAD.

Cheers,
Tom